Danbassin

Something that I've been meaning to ask around about for quite a while - Fellow Monette owners (past and present) - what horns have you owned or played extensively, and what are your thoughts regarding their characteristics? I've owned an STC-4 and an MC-96 C trumpet, and currently play a Prana LTJ (my first Monette Bb) and am awaiting delivery on a P-1 C.

As far as the Prana change-over goes, I'm continually amazed by these horns - as big a difference as it was when I first put a Prana mouthpiece into my trumpet, now it's the whole horn! But, my main objective here is to open up a discussion about the different characteristics and qualities of the different model horns Monette has made over the past 25 yrs.

Discuss! - and thanks!

-db

Jimi Michiel

Dan-

This is a really interesting angle to look at these horns--Monette is constantly striving for perfection and the nomenclature is constantly changing to reflect improved designs.

So here are the Monette instruments I've owned/played--

C997 (2003) -- This was my first Monette horn. At the time they only made the B-flat equivalent (B997), mainly because the predecessor (C937) was so dark that in the next generation they decided that the configuration would only really appeal to small group jazz combo players and not orchestral musicians. I had played a C937 at NEC and really liked it, so when I ordered my horn I gave them the serial number of the one I played and they used that horn as a starting point to build my C997.

STC-1 E-flat -- I bought this one used and got a really great deal on it. It was originally built for Andrew Balio and had his initials stamped on the side. It had a lot of the playing characteristics I like in Monette instruments, but I had some problems with intonation and evenness throughout the horn. In hindsight, it may have been designed for a bigger mouthpiece (I forget what Balio played when he used Monette equipment). I took it to the shop and had Dave fit a mouthpiece for it, but eventually decided to sell it. To be fair, I still haven't found an E-flat trumpet I really like. Maybe I just have something against the key...

B937 -- This one is a loaner, but I've had it for about a year and a half now. It's nice because it's essentially the perfect match to my C997, albeit a little early. Maybe I'll post some pictures later, but it's very interesting to compare the two instruments--there are subtle changes in the bracing design and other "minor" parts that really give my C997 a little different feel than the older B937.

MC 96 -- Just got this one a few weeks ago. It's silver plated and also the longest trumpet I've ever owned. I had to buy a Monette double case just to have a case that fit. This trumpet is the most responsive instrument I've ever played. You think about playing a note and it's already at the back of the hall. The only drawback is I have to be really careful not to put too much on the front of the note because it's just so responsive.

Bach/Monette conversion -- This horn was converted by Monette at some point. It had a Monette STC-1 leadpipe, tuning slide and Getzen-style brace between the second valve and leadpipe. It played like a Bach, although much more evenly.

Prana XLT/LT/P1 Bb - Coming 9/09 I put my order in a few weeks ago, now I've just got to wait (and save!). On the plus side, I'll be getting a big shipment of mouthpieces next week to try and find the right fit for a lead trumpet mouthpiece. That should keep my busy for a little while...

Other horns I've played...

Valveless Posthorn -- This wasn't the one Dave made for Charlie to do Mahler 3, this was a valveless posthorn made specifically for the Mozart Posthorn Serenade. I got to play this right after I heard Charlie play it with the BSO in 2006. I was preparing the excerpt for an audition, so it was interesting to play it. He used a STC-3 flumpet mouthpiece. I'm pretty sure it was the heaviest posthorn I will ever play.

Modified Schilke P5-4 -- One of my high school teachers had his P5-4 modified by Dave in the early 90s when Dave still did occaisional work on other maker's horns. This P5-4 had a Monette leadpipe and a Raja-style "fin" going from the bell to the 4th slide. It added a lot of mass and darkened the sound, and everything slotted much, much better.

godchaser

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Nice thread Dan. You happen to play a Flumpet? -Anyone? Would love to hear a longtime players' thoughts.


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B15M

My main trumpet is a B-flat 993.
I don't know if I am a good enough player to critique Monette but, I'll put down my thoughts

Most of the posts I read on how a trumpet plays all say the same thing.
"Slots well, plays even through out, responds better than the others etc."

So, all of that is true.

When I play a scale, to play a lower note feels like the same resistance as a higher note and when I push down a valve the resistance doesn't change.

When I play softly I have a nice sound. It is the sound I always wanted. When I play louder the same sound comes out. It doesn't spread. I don't like that when I play lead with a big band. I can easily overpower the band but it doesn't get that sizzle sound.

When I bought the trumpet the prana mouthpiece wasn't invented yet so I asked for one when they were. Monette sent one and asked that I send one back. I didn't like the Prana but everyone said I sounded better on it so, I kept it. I'm used to it now but, I wish I still had the mouthpiece the trumpet was made with. I should have just paid for the prana and kept both. The reason I say this is: I have some intonation issues. G and A just above the staff are sharp. I blame the mouthpiece. I don't think it's me because I don't have the problem with my other Monette trumpets.
I play an STC 3 B15M most of the time. I like the sound and feel. I have an STC 2 that gives a little brighter sound.

While we are talking about tuning: I use the slides all the time. The G above the staff bugs me because I can't fix it with a slide.

When I play in a band and there is two on a part and the guy (girl) next to me is a strong player, I have trouble hearing myself. I think most of the sound is coming out of the bell and forward. When I play my Bach the sound seems to stay closer to me. Maybe because the metal is vibrating more, I really don't know.

I have a MF Prana on order. I should have it in about four months. I didn't get a bunch of mouthpieces to try, I have to call them because I'm not happy with the one I use. B15lD. It's really close to what I want.

Danbassin

I've only played a few notes on a flumpet, but it is an impressive instrument. If I could, that would be my next horn. I was lucky enough to be in contact with the late Art Farmer in the early mid-90's, and heard him play both the original Flumpet, and the 'Next Generation' Flumpet (with the sheet bracing and larger shanked mouthpiece). Those horns are incredibly responsive and expressive, and the important thing to remember when considering them is that they're a complete instrument - not a novelty. Art had been switching back and forth between Flugel and Trpt for years, and had played a Monette Bb for a while, and I don't know whose idea it was, but the Flumpet combines what were the most essential qualities (to Art Farmer and to Dave Monette) of a trumpet and a flugel. It's a solo instrument - though the idea of a section sound of several Flumpets is something for the mind's ear to behold.
The addition of sheet bracing and the larger mpc essentially increased the number of overtones present in the sound. It is a very dense and dark sound, but, due to its nature and to the design of the cup of a Flumpet mouthpiece, the sound is quite diffuse and...vocal. When played with little velocity it approaches the singing quality of a Flugel, though it does not have the 'light' (and to my ears...'bright') sound of that instrument - possibly because of the complex of overtones present in the sound. When pushed the instrument opens up to a brassy 'super trumpet' sound - I believe Mark Isham described the sound as similiar to a 'soprano valve trombone'. That's totally accurate, I think, but requires some imagination to 'hear' without having the horn on your face.

-db

Danbassin

Joe,

The pitch center is higher with Prana equipment in general, but the range-specific intonation issues you describe could be related to hardware in one or two ways (if I'm to speculate - and, of course, hardware issues are always how we relate to the hardware): there could be a problem with your valve-cap tension. Have you experimented with different tension(s) since you switched over the the Prana mpc?
The other is a possible backbore issue - has the horn and mpc been back to Portland for adjustments? The overal balance of parameters with Prana equipment seems to be a very sensitive balance. The P-1C I have coming to me sometime within the next few weeks is going to be built with a mid-sized shank, and I've spoken at some length with Dave and Dean about upper-register tuning and mouthpiece pitch center. It's complex, and I'm happy that they're the ones balancing out the equation for me, rather than my dictating what throat, backbore, etc etc. Anyway, MY story is that the C1-1S1 that I play has such a large cup, that in order to get a backbore to balance it a larger shank will be necessary. The horn is going to be delivered with a few mouthpieces with 'different pitch centers' as Dave wanted to make sure that the high register (even the range you're describing) wouldn't be too high. All of this has to do with the amount of tension we play with, though.
I saw on your myspace page that you've studied with Charlie Schlueter - he is a player who plays with very little tension, so equipment with a higher pitch-center wouldn't pose as much a problem for him as it potentially could with you or me.

I hope that clears something up...and I think having the shop match your 993 to the mpc would be key. Regarding what you described about 'hearing' yourself in the section, I think that's a common issue with the heavier, larger bell horns in general. You, you lucky man!, have worked out that problem for your self in the best of possible ways by ordering an MF! I played one at the shop a year and a half ago when I put in my horn order, and all I can say is that you'll be very pleased with that instrument! As far as the mouthpiece issue goes, I suggest you talk to Dean about what you like in the B15LD and what else you'd like to hear, feel, etc. The things that they're doing with backbores and weight (remember that that mpc can come as an STC-1, LT, or XLT weight) will give you two quite a bit to talk about. Also, have you tried the 'slap' series mouthpieces yet? The B1-5MS5 (the Cal Price mpc) is one of the most extreme standard slap mpcs they make - it's still a nice, large and robust sounding mpc, but it can be quite agressive if you play it hard - but you might find for lead situations a slap version of your B1-5LD would work well.

Of course, I don't know your playing, so my 'advice' is just internet opinion (and we all know what that's worth). But, I'm very happy that we're getting some equipment-related discussion going on this thread.
I've run on long enough!

Best,

-db

B15M

One of these days I'm going to go to the factory. I brought my trumpet with me to ITG and let them play it. They know there is some work needed. I never sent it back because I keep telling myself that I'm going to the factory.

I played the MF Prana at ITG. I was amazed at the sound. How could the same trumpet play so dark in the lower register and so bright in the upper.

I couldn't really do what I wanted because the room was filled with famous people and I was intimidated

Patric_Bernard

The Factory is just two states above me :(. When i'm working in a dealership i will most likely buy a monette or a State 1

Danbassin

Patric,

A trip to the shop is certainly worth it! Everybody there is very friendly and ready to answer any question you might have. If you're two states away from Monette, you're on the other side of the country from Felix and Stage 1, but I've heard only wonderful things about his customer service - give him a call, too!
A thing to keep in mind regarding Monette instruments is that they're compatible ONLY with Monette mouthpieces. Some people have difficulty adjusting to the concepts of body use and letting go of some physical bad habits which are necessary when dealing with Monette equipment - a trip to the shop could be very useful in finding a mouthpiece that could work best for you, and also to get an understanding of what sort of adjustments we have to let go of when playing Monette.

Best, and good luck!

-db

Danbassin

I feel bad to be the only one keeping this thread going, but I can understand as there have been less than 2200 horns over the past 25 years. The sort of thing I was hoping somebody could chime in on are some qualitative remarks regarding models. For example, I owned a Chicago-era STC-4, and have played an STC-7 from around the same period, and a Portland-era STC-1 (with the larger bell). Was anybody in 'the know' when these earlier models where first around that can remark on the STC, STC-2, etc evolutions? I've noticed far more STC's, STC-4's, and STC-7's than other models, though I have seen some STC-2's [please note I'm talking about instrument models, not mouthpiece weights], and STC-5's. That the 900 series instrument model weight designations came from the STC series is interesting in that the 9X3 (like Wynton's 993 before the 900's became Prana instruments) was one of the most popular instruments, though I don't ever recall seeing an STC-3 model horn.

Thank you in advance for any related information, or for any similiar queries.

-db