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Horns Discuss My bachstrad37 a dud? in the Equipment forums; I need some advice, please. By chance I played on a student's Holton T602 today (a student Bb trumpet) and ...
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    Pianissimo User tunefultrumpet's Avatar
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    Question My bachstrad37 a dud?

    I need some advice, please. By chance I played on a student's Holton T602 today (a student Bb trumpet) and I found it played really nicely. My curiosity aroused, I did a play test against my Bach strad 37 mL which I have owned for 20 years. To my amazement the Holton played more in tune throughout it's entire range than my Bach. My Bach plays really flat D, E, F in the stave, the holton was spot on. It also felt like it was a lot less work to produce a tone on the Holton than the Bach. I weighed both horns and there is only a 100g difference (2.4kg Holton, 2.5 kg Bach). Was I sold a dud Bach 20 years ago and have been working harder than I need to for all that time? or there something else going on that I am not aware of? All comments appreciated....

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    Moderator Utimate User Vulgano Brother's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    All kinds of parameters can match the horn to the player (and the player's mouthpiece), and my experience has been that just as certain imperfections can make certain women more beautiful in the eyes of some beholders than others, we each have our own idea what horns should play like.

    Bach has made it a point of pride to keep using old tooling and dimentions--part of a tradition thing. Only recently have they felt the need to try some new stuff. Holton has kept trying new stuff for a long, long time, and with good computers and great programs, a maker can design all kinds of workable instruments.

    It may well be that the Holton is a better fit for you, but do not be discouraged by the "student" designation. The best trumpet in the world is a "student trumpet" in the hands of a beginner, and a "student trumpet" in the hands of the best player in the world is a professional instrument.

    Your 37 may be a dud, however. Bach was never famed for consistency of their instruments, and age or initial manufacture may have left you with an inferior 37. Try some other 37's. Is their a huge difference? If not, trade your horn for your student's or buy a Holton of your own, and enjoy!
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    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    Quote Originally Posted by tunefultrumpet View Post
    I need some advice, please. By chance I played on a student's Holton T602 today (a student Bb trumpet) and I found it played really nicely. My curiosity aroused, I did a play test against my Bach strad 37 mL which I have owned for 20 years. To my amazement the Holton played more in tune throughout it's entire range than my Bach. My Bach plays really flat D, E, F in the stave, the holton was spot on. It also felt like it was a lot less work to produce a tone on the Holton than the Bach. I weighed both horns and there is only a 100g difference (2.4kg Holton, 2.5 kg Bach). Was I sold a dud Bach 20 years ago and have been working harder than I need to for all that time? or there something else going on that I am not aware of? All comments appreciated....
    Your Bach has a flat F? I have NEVER heard of that before. Even the less consistent Bb horns were still OK in tune on D, Eb and E. I think you may have other problems like a leaky spit valve, dirt in the horn, valve alignment, maybe even a glob of solder somewhere inside.
    I would get it professionally looked at.

    As far as what you THINK you experienced................ I feel that you need to compare trumpets in a relatively large acoustic space. Many times, lighter instruments give you the impression that they are easier to play, when all that is happening is that you hear yourself better. The disadvantage to that is that the energy that reaches your ears is NOT getting to the audience. If you are in a bigger room, you feel what is necessary to fill the room - and THAT is where those light instruments become a lot tougher to play.
    All comparisons have to be treated with caution. Too little knowledge can turn out expensive.
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    Pianissimo User tunefultrumpet's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    thanks for those comments guys, all good food for thought. The worst note on my Bach is the E just below top of the stave. It is very, very flat. Can't remember how flat the F was, maybe just a little. I keep my Bach clean, but it has some wear and tear. I did test the horns in a large room. I am going to play the Holton on a big band gig tonight and see how I find it. It maybe a Holton is the way to go for me, I might even buy the student Holton from the rental company.

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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    Has the Bach ever been aligned?? Have you tried different backbores on you mouthpiece or maybe a slightly different mouthpiece from another make???
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    Pianissimo User tunefultrumpet's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    no my Bach has never had an alignment done. Does that mean the valves get aligned? I have noticed that different mouthpieces affect the overall tuning...it's a good point, I should do some intonation tests using several different mouthpieces.

    I tried the Holton and Bach comparison again at home and my wife reckoned, in a blind test, that if the two horns were pieces of wood, the Bach's sound was sanded wood and the Holton student model was unsanded wood. After she said it, I could hear what she meant. The Bach's sound was smoother. Tuning was still better on the Holton, though.

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    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    Quote Originally Posted by tunefultrumpet View Post
    no my Bach has never had an alignment done. Does that mean the valves get aligned? I have noticed that different mouthpieces affect the overall tuning...it's a good point, I should do some intonation tests using several different mouthpieces.

    I tried the Holton and Bach comparison again at home and my wife reckoned, in a blind test, that if the two horns were pieces of wood, the Bach's sound was sanded wood and the Holton student model was unsanded wood. After she said it, I could hear what she meant. The Bach's sound was smoother. Tuning was still better on the Holton, though.
    That is a brilliant comparison. It is now up to you if your colleagues get splinters or not............
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    in another post I talk about my wife's horn that I have started to use for outdoor venues where it might get bumped. it is an early 70's Getzen and the whole time her brother had it and then passed it down to her it had intonation issues. last year I took it to my favorite tech guru to have a new lead pipe put on and he found the intonation problem - the receiver gap had been over 1/2 inch from day one, he reset it and the horn really changed. just one thing to check out and it is pretty easy to check. Dave
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    Pianissimo User tunefultrumpet's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    Well, no one complained last night. I played the Holton on a four hour big band gig. The slightly rough sound quality of the student horn was masked by the large hall we played in...those acoustics will make just about any horn sound good.
    What amazed me was the hugely increased endurance I had on Holton compared to my Bach. Normally it is a pretty marathon effort to get through that type of gig, but I did not feel the first twinge of tiredness till 2 hours into the gig. Yes, I know it sounds strange that a change of horn could make such a difference. I think one reason is I wasn't having to compensate for some badly out of tune notes on my Bach. But the Holton was definitely easier for me to play. Maybe my Bach has aged badly, I played it professionally in orchestras when it was still relatively new and I don't remember any big problems then with tuning.

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    Pianissimo User tunefultrumpet's Avatar
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    Re: My bachstrad37 a dud?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mickley View Post
    in another post I talk about my wife's horn that I have started to use for outdoor venues where it might get bumped. it is an early 70's Getzen and the whole time her brother had it and then passed it down to her it had intonation issues. last year I took it to my favorite tech guru to have a new lead pipe put on and he found the intonation problem - the receiver gap had been over 1/2 inch from day one, he reset it and the horn really changed. just one thing to check out and it is pretty easy to check. Dave
    thanks for that tip Dave, I will look into it.

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