ctm2aud

Hey guys,
I have heard anecdotally that an old trumpet can take on the character of how it was played over the years. If it was played well and in tune by a pro over many years, the horn "prefers", if you will, to be played in tune and produces stunning resonance as a result. On the other hand, if a horn was played and tuned inconsistently over the years it will play ok but nothing spectacular.

You could think of this as simply the slotting and resonance the horn naturally has based on how it was made and dismiss the idea but I think I have just experienced it this last week. I bought a 1970's vintage Strad 37/25LR that was gold plated sometime after it was made. I believe it was played for a number of years in an orchestral setting. When I pull the main slide out about 1/2 inch (similar to the way I used to tune in band) the horn just sings!

So wada ya think?

dbacon

Sounds like you have a really fine Bach!!

Congrats!!!!!!!!

My Bachs are that way, made in 1974. Wonderful trumpets!

camelbrass

I've got a 1 year old Strad that does the same thing. In terms of resonance I can't distinguish it from the old ones I've played.


Regards,


Trevor

music matters

An interesting topic. Top violinists say that if they do not play their violins for awhile that the violins tone is not as good as the molecules etc that make up the wood are in conflict as opposed to working together in sympathy. They say this especially for the older high quality expensive violins - they need to be played to sound of their best for this reason apparantly. Some high end loudspeaker manufacturers that have wood finishes believe this as well...if you have not used your violin/wood finished loudspeaker for a while the wood will take time to get back together working in sympathy.

I don't have any evidence of whether the above is true - only what I have been told/heard (I think I saw a documentary on Discovery, or a similar channel, about the science behind this a long time ago), but if it is true then I suppose a pro that plays in the centre of the tone getting a beautiful resonance could make the brass (molecules or whatever it is!) work in sympathy together giving the horn a better sound so I suppose that a horn that a pro played could sound better than one played less by an amateur that doesn't hit the sweet spot and make the trumpet resonate as much.

Overall though, I think there are other parameters that are probably far more important in a trumpet design, and have a large effect on how a horn plays, rather than whether a pro has played it, and if that does actually have an affect.

Graham.

tom turner

Actually,

The best horns were those built on the part of the Moon's cycle called the "New Moon," when the gravitational pull of the Moon has the least impact on things on the earth.

Even more specifically, the top players wanted a horn built during one of two times during that 24 hour day of the New Moon peak when the moon was least likely to be directly overhead or directly under foot for even less gravitational pull on the horn as it was being assembled!

All horns have to be totally stress free in order to ring and resonate to their peak efficiency . . . thus the great desire by those "in the know" to get a horn assembled during the peak day of the New Moon.


Of course, this is stunningly logical if you think about it . . . but I'm pulling your leg . . . I think!

Everyone have a great day!

Tom

W Scott

The last time I checked, the moon only affects things that are growing and alive!

But, as to resonance, most of us on this board have found that there are certain horns that just play better. You can take 5 Strads, or 5 Lawlers and there will be one that really stands out. What I'm thinking is that the grand old horns of yesterday that we find today with lots of wear on 'em, have that wear because they resonated well. And, today, after many years of playing they ring even better. So, it's not because of years of playing that they ring so well, it's because they've always done that and just gotten better over the years.

I do wonder though about some of the brass material. The Conn 22B's from 1946 to 1948 along with some of the Kings from that era were probably made from recycled, fired brass casings from WW2. Did this affect the resonance making these really great horns? I have a '47 that really rings---it even impressed my teacher who is a university prof. and pro player. Interesting stuff to speculate on.............

Veldkamp

I can't tell if an vintage horn played by a pro plays better as the same horn played by a bad player. I do think that time releases the stress in the material which gives it a richer sound due to more overtones in the sound. It's already noticable if a new horn is played for half a year. It releases the stress from hammering and spinning a bit.

dcstep

I think the odds of a leading brand, vintage horn from the 1940s, '50s and '60s resonating better than a leading brand, top quality current production horn are very high. I suspect that it's a combination of the brass quality and the reduction of stress over time.

I don't understand why the brass alloys of old should be any better than today's. It seems to me that producing an alloy should be a repeatable process. Maybe there's a metalurgist reading that can explain what's going on.

Dave

Veldkamp

They can't use all alloys anymore due to environment issues. Also, as Thomas Lubitz (Yamaha designer) pointed out to me last week, the brassinstruments industry is only using 3% of the materials available. So they have to use what the big industries are using. Maybe the industry is using different alloys now comparing to the earlier days.

A good example is the difference in horns during the war.

dcstep

Eric, I think we're talking the same thing. However, I didn't realize that the alloys were no longer available. I thought it was perhaps more a matter of the makers didn't really care and were taking the path of least resistance.

I recently read on a saxophone site that Henri Selmer Paris made a concerted effort to reproduce their old alloys and that around 2000 the quality of their saxes reappeared with the adoption of the reproduced alloys. I've been trying to get Jerome Selmer to answer a few questions, but he's not answering my email, yet. I'll keep trying. I'm really hoping that he'll talk about the brass alloys.

I play in a band where the tenor/alto player has both 1950s Selmers and their "modern" Reference sax models. They sound remarkably the same. What's really interesting is when he and I play certain chord tones the resonance of our combined Selmer horns is astounding. He thinks it's the alloys and I tend to agree. When we both played Yamahas that didn't happen in such a noticeable way. It's incredible when it happens. We both hear it and just smile. It's wonderful.

Dave