Olds Large Bore?

Trumpet1Ohio · 08-27-2005, 06:16 PM

I've got a ML Studio and love it. Wondering if Olds made a large bore horn? I want to make sure I know what to watch for.

tom turner · 08-27-2005, 08:32 PM

The Olds Opera was their only standard production, large bore trumpet and cornet. Most models were ML bore.

I posted a link to the "Olds Central" website in the Vintage Horns forum just a couple of days ago. Look on the thread about the Olds Military Model and you'll find the link.

The Olds Central website has tons of information about Olds instruments from their early days forward, complete with the different catalogues through the years. Check it out . . . and enjoy!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

Happy Canuck · 08-27-2005, 09:32 PM

Tom was only half right, the Olds Custom P-12L was a large bore (.464). They had the P-12 and the P-12L, the only way to tell that it is large bore is to see the L on the valve cluster.
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/custombb.htm

The Opera was a .468 bore.
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds66/operatpt.htm
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds70/old...-recording.htm

tom turner · 08-27-2005, 10:13 PM

Hi again,

After Selmer acquired Bach in 1961, the fast demise of many of the proud old band instrument companies who made fine trumpets and cornets began as school kids could finally have a mass-produced trumpet called a Bach Strad.

To answer this new threat Olds came out with the really cool P-10, a trumpet kit with several detachable bells and leadpipes that the Olds dealer could use to "dial in" the perfect trumpet for the discerning pro! Once the player decided what bell and leadpipe he/she wanted their custom P-10 was made for them! It was too little, too late though, as the kids flocked to the Selmer/Bach.

Olds soon dropped the idea of the P-10 and the P-12 and P-12L were very late, new-model introductions made during the last gasp years of the combined Olds/Reynolds production under the sorry leadership of the Norlin Corp. Gone were the bell and leadpipe options of the P-10 but now the horn came in two bore sizes. It was their most expensive model.

Norlin bought the companies in 1964 and managed to shut 'em both down forever around '79. The final several years were not kind to either Olds or Reynolds and QC problems were well known.

Reynolds and Olds also made a last gasp attempt at making a premiere high register horn, called the E.R.A. (for Extended Range Altissimo in the Reynolds line) during the '70s. It was a terrible playing horn. Olds, I believe, had a similar model called the HRT (or something to that effect . . . I think I"m having an attack of "Old-Timers Disease!"

BACK TO THE POINT . . .

Since some makers call their .463 (ala Reynolds) or .464 bore horns either MLP or Large Bore horns, the P-12L WOULD qualify I guess as a large bore Olds. My apologies.

For me though, the Opera is what I think about when I think of the Olds trumpets that are large bore. I've always thought highly of both Reynolds and Olds. It is a shame that they didn't make it! Norlin bought 'em, cut corners and lost the reputation . . . and then shut 'em down. Bummer!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

Trumpet1Ohio · 08-29-2005, 09:02 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I'm glad I asked. That Opera is an awesome looking horn. I looked at the '62 Olds Catalogue on Olds Central. I'll keep an eye out. Were many made?

tom turner · 08-29-2005, 11:07 PM

Hi Ken,

You would probably like the Recording or the Super Recording best, judging by your taste in the Burbank era Benge 3X. To me they represent the high water mark of the Olds trumpets. Then again, ya know what they say about opinions!

BTW, I've always loved the looks of the Operas, and they are fine horns! They didn't sell nearly as many of them as they did their ML horns, so they are rarer to encounter. Hang in there though . . . they WILL pop up and fetch a good price on eBay every few months.

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

Trumpet1Ohio · 08-29-2005, 11:15 PM

Tom.

I've never played a large bore and thought I'd like to invest in an inexpensive used large bore. Even thought of an MLP Benge. Any other ideas? Remember the key word is... inexpensive.

old geezer · 08-30-2005, 08:44 AM

I have two Benges - 2xml & 2xmlp - I prefer the mlp over the ml because to ME it plays easier and has a slightly richer tone. my wife [who is a better player] prefers the 2xml. every one of us is different so go for a larger bore and see what you think. I once had a Meha [.470 bore] and after about 5 months sold it, it was just to loosey goosey for me and wore me out on a big band job. since you already play a Benge you might want to try a mlp and see what you think. it also might be easier to sell a Benge, I am not positive on that but they do have a good reputation if you buy an early model. Good Luck old geezer Dave

Trumpet1Ohio · 08-30-2005, 01:07 PM

Thanks Dave. That's a strong possibilty. I like the idea of the .464 as oppsoed to .470. Too much of a jump.

T1O

contempora · 09-08-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom turner

Hi again,

After Selmer acquired Bach in 1961, the fast demise of many of the proud old band instrument companies who made fine trumpets and cornets began as school kids could finally have a mass-produced trumpet called a Bach Strad.

To answer this new threat Olds came out with the really cool P-10, a trumpet kit with several detachable bells and leadpipes that the Olds dealer could use to "dial in" the perfect trumpet for the discerning pro! Once the player decided what bell and leadpipe he/she wanted their custom P-10 was made for them! It was too little, too late though, as the kids flocked to the Selmer/Bach.

Olds soon dropped the idea of the P-10 and the P-12 and P-12L were very late, new-model introductions made during the last gasp years of the combined Olds/Reynolds production under the sorry leadership of the Norlin Corp. Gone were the bell and leadpipe options of the P-10 but now the horn came in two bore sizes. It was their most expensive model.

Norlin bought the companies in 1964 and managed to shut 'em both down forever around '79. The final several years were not kind to either Olds or Reynolds and QC problems were well known.

Reynolds and Olds also made a last gasp attempt at making a premiere high register horn, called the E.R.A. (for Extended Range Altissimo in the Reynolds line) during the '70s. It was a terrible playing horn. Olds, I believe, had a similar model called the HRT (or something to that effect . . . I think I"m having an attack of "Old-Timers Disease!"

BACK TO THE POINT . . .

Since some makers call their .463 (ala Reynolds) or .464 bore horns either MLP or Large Bore horns, the P-12L WOULD qualify I guess as a large bore Olds. My apologies.

For me though, the Opera is what I think about when I think of the Olds trumpets that are large bore. I've always thought highly of both Reynolds and Olds. It is a shame that they didn't make it! Norlin bought 'em, cut corners and lost the reputation . . . and then shut 'em down. Bummer!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

Good stuff there, Tom - thanks for sharing. The Olds model was the CHR (Custom High Range) - Alan Rouse has a review on one somewhere on his site. I've been contacted by a couple of ERA players who've pointed out that the ERA had a main tuning slide, while the CHR did not. So they weren't exactly the same horn... I just bought a print ad for an ERA from 1974 - it's on the site here.

08-27-2005, 06:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
Trumpet1Ohio Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 111	Olds Large Bore? I've got a ML Studio and love it. Wondering if Olds made a large bore horn? I want to make sure I know what to watch for. __________________ Ken Burbank Benge 3X Olds Super Conn 22B

08-27-2005, 09:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Happy Canuck Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 174	Tom was only half right, the Olds Custom P-12L was a large bore (.464). They had the P-12 and the P-12L, the only way to tell that it is large bore is to see the L on the valve cluster. http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/custombb.htm The Opera was a .468 bore. http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds66/operatpt.htm http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds70/old...-recording.htm __________________ Bill Olds Ambassador, Special, Super, Recording, Mendez Bb trumpets, Custom C trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M Olds Opera & Ambassador A6 Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B Olds L-12 Flugelhorn/GR Butcher 65.6FL Schilke MII Trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M If you have an Olds, go to http://www.theoldsregister.com/ and add data

08-29-2005, 09:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
Trumpet1Ohio Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 111	Thanks for the info guys. I'm glad I asked. That Opera is an awesome looking horn. I looked at the '62 Olds Catalogue on Olds Central. I'll keep an eye out. Were many made? __________________ Ken Burbank Benge 3X Olds Super Conn 22B

08-29-2005, 11:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Trumpet1Ohio Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 111	Tom. I've never played a large bore and thought I'd like to invest in an inexpensive used large bore. Even thought of an MLP Benge. Any other ideas? Remember the key word is... inexpensive. __________________ Ken Burbank Benge 3X Olds Super Conn 22B

08-30-2005, 08:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
old geezer Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Indianapolis,In. Posts: 174	I have two Benges - 2xml & 2xmlp - I prefer the mlp over the ml because to ME it plays easier and has a slightly richer tone. my wife [who is a better player] prefers the 2xml. every one of us is different so go for a larger bore and see what you think. I once had a Meha [.470 bore] and after about 5 months sold it, it was just to loosey goosey for me and wore me out on a big band job. since you already play a Benge you might want to try a mlp and see what you think. it also might be easier to sell a Benge, I am not positive on that but they do have a good reputation if you buy an early model. Good Luck old geezer Dave __________________ L.A.Benge 2ML 16389 L.A.Benge 2MLP 11745 K- Allmen 1414 Yamaha 231 Flugel 15383 Olds Amb. Cornet 50734

08-27-2005, 08:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
tom turner Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 788	The Olds Opera was their only standard production, large bore trumpet and cornet. Most models were ML bore. I posted a link to the "Olds Central" website in the Vintage Horns forum just a couple of days ago. Look on the thread about the Olds Military Model and you'll find the link. The Olds Central website has tons of information about Olds instruments from their early days forward, complete with the different catalogues through the years. Check it out . . . and enjoy! Sincerely, Tom Turner

08-27-2005, 10:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
tom turner Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 788	Hi again, After Selmer acquired Bach in 1961, the fast demise of many of the proud old band instrument companies who made fine trumpets and cornets began as school kids could finally have a mass-produced trumpet called a Bach Strad. To answer this new threat Olds came out with the really cool P-10, a trumpet kit with several detachable bells and leadpipes that the Olds dealer could use to "dial in" the perfect trumpet for the discerning pro! Once the player decided what bell and leadpipe he/she wanted their custom P-10 was made for them! It was too little, too late though, as the kids flocked to the Selmer/Bach. Olds soon dropped the idea of the P-10 and the P-12 and P-12L were very late, new-model introductions made during the last gasp years of the combined Olds/Reynolds production under the sorry leadership of the Norlin Corp. Gone were the bell and leadpipe options of the P-10 but now the horn came in two bore sizes. It was their most expensive model. Norlin bought the companies in 1964 and managed to shut 'em both down forever around '79. The final several years were not kind to either Olds or Reynolds and QC problems were well known. Reynolds and Olds also made a last gasp attempt at making a premiere high register horn, called the E.R.A. (for Extended Range Altissimo in the Reynolds line) during the '70s. It was a terrible playing horn. Olds, I believe, had a similar model called the HRT (or something to that effect . . . I think I"m having an attack of "Old-Timers Disease!" BACK TO THE POINT . . . Since some makers call their .463 (ala Reynolds) or .464 bore horns either MLP or Large Bore horns, the P-12L WOULD qualify I guess as a large bore Olds. My apologies. For me though, the Opera is what I think about when I think of the Olds trumpets that are large bore. I've always thought highly of both Reynolds and Olds. It is a shame that they didn't make it! Norlin bought 'em, cut corners and lost the reputation . . . and then shut 'em down. Bummer! Sincerely, Tom Turner

08-29-2005, 11:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
tom turner Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 788	Hi Ken, You would probably like the Recording or the Super Recording best, judging by your taste in the Burbank era Benge 3X. To me they represent the high water mark of the Olds trumpets. Then again, ya know what they say about opinions! BTW, I've always loved the looks of the Operas, and they are fine horns! They didn't sell nearly as many of them as they did their ML horns, so they are rarer to encounter. Hang in there though . . . they WILL pop up and fetch a good price on eBay every few months. Sincerely, Tom Turner

08-30-2005, 01:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
Trumpet1Ohio Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 111	Thanks Dave. That's a strong possibilty. I like the idea of the .464 as oppsoed to .470. Too much of a jump. T1O __________________ Ken Burbank Benge 3X Olds Super Conn 22B

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