midwestchops

Tootsall

Yamaha? Even some of the custom builders (most?) will do special work for others but I presume you mean "mainstream" makers.

Dan Millheim

Interesting question. I have never heard that Monette makes horns for another company or recieves parts from another builder? They use to have their valves made by Getzen but not anymore. I thought Eclipse was entirely original (other then their Bauerfine valves) but I discovered that their bells are made by another... shhhh.. UK company. They also build horns now for other companies with different specs. Getzen builds for Edwards and we all know Kanstul makes horns for everybody and their uncle. Harrelson gets parts from Kanstul and then builds his own horns and now, horns for others who put their name on a name of a name.

I guess the REAL market is so small for high end horns that these companies need to work together to keep costs down. In the end these "alliances" offer great selection and custom configurations at a more affordable price point.

If you want an exlusive horn, go with Monette. I hear they'll do in a pinch ha.

midwestchops

i understand the aspect of making things affordable, especially since i am one who cant afford all of the things i would really like to have (married, full time student, father of 2, and working) but i was just really curious as to how many manufacturers produced only THEIR instruments and not for others etc. i dont necesssarily think that its a bad thing, but there is also that feeling of knowing that your trumpet is not the same out of the box mass produced piece of equipment that millions of others buy from the store day in and day out. i know most of the "mainstream" companies are all in bed together. monette im pretty sure and then i wasnt sure of companies like schilke, eclipse, nytc, etc. i thought kanstul was a loner until i started frequenting this page. an interesting market for sure.

trumpetmike

I believe Galileo do all their own parts. They used to use the Bauerfine valve blocks that Eclipse/Taylor use, then they decided that they could do a better job themselves (which is one heck of a claim) and I think they have succeeded, from what I have seen at ITG.

I think Schilke do everything in-house.



The thing that sets many of the smaller firms apart is not where the parts come from, but what they do with them.

Tootsall

I think you'll find that there are two parts to the question: does any particular maker produce finished instruments with their own name ONLY on the horn? and does any particular maker produce instruments using ONLY their own, in-house components?

Kanstul certainly concentrate on building everything "in-house" but they also build parts and horns for (many!) others to use. Schilke are, I think, the most "dedicated" of the "non-custom" companies, building "almost" all of their own bits (I am pretty certain that they source the beryllium (and possibly sterling?) bells from outside vendors) and only building with their own name on the instruments.

Remember too that Allied are certainly capable (and probably do) crank out "bits and pieces" that they'll sell to anyone who wants to buy; (water keys, bells, etc.) Even Yamaha (who ship with only "Yamaha" stamped on them) are now getting some production from factories in China (as are Bach/UMI).

All of the custom makers (including, until recently, Monette) use components sourced from others. Of course, Monette only builds with their own name on the finished product. It just doesn't pay most of the custom makers to set up their own valve production since a certain (and probably quite high) volume OR final selling price is required to support such expensive machinery.

It is definitely interesting though and the customers are reaping the benefits of this "cross-pollination" of ideas and components. Unfortunately customers can also suffer if they choose to purchase from a retailer (on-line and mail-order please note) who doesn't give them GOOD after-sales service and elect to refer problems "back to the manufacturer"!

Even the highest quality components can be poorly put together to make a junk instrument; the real skill is to be found in the people who put all the bits together so that the horn "sings".

uatrmpt

I might be completely wrong, but I believe that at one time Yamaha was making the Bach marching brass. I don't know if this is still true, or if it ever was, the the instruments look very similar.

rowuk

What a christmas present-another new friend! Welcome Midwest chops!

If you look at a formula one car you will see a lot of logos for all sorts of parts that the "manufacturer" did not build himself, not because it isn't possible, but because it makes sense to spend your time on what you do best. I believe this is also true when building trumpets. Correct mechanical functionality is not an "option". Very good intonation should also not be an option but there are several mainstream manufacturers that are not 100% successful here. The reason that we buy the instruments that we do is for the sound and the blow. Using valves or bells or anything else from specialized manufacturers does not have to be detrimental. I am sure that the Eclipse bell made by XXXXXX will not show up on another horn-and even if it did, it would not sound or play like the Eclipse. If Eclipse made EVERYTHING himself, the horns would be more expensive and probably no better than they are now. I think Dave Monette has to have control of the complete process because having a third party company experiment like he does would be even more expensive. His production methods do not require tooling for 10,000 instruments. Dave's ability to play with every aspect of his horns construction at any time commands the premium price. He still manages to turn out consistently great instruments.
What I am trying to say, you pay for the finished product. If the results are what you want, then the rest does not matter! I think it is cool to know where the stuff comes from though!

Liad Bar-EL

You hit the nail on the head!!

This is the same response I got from other horn makers ... even the ones who claim to make their horns by hand. In fact, the statement that I got was that there is not one horn maker who does not source out some of their horn parts....not even Monette. Wouldn't you guys get upset if his parts were made in India by the poor people who make $5.00 a week? IMO, I think that allowing companies to specialize and perfect their particular products that go into the horn will make for a higher quality horn. Some makers train and source out their horn assemblies for certain model horns. I have seen that this has lead to competition against that very horn maker who trained and contracted with them as well.

It's true however that it is the horn maker to make the horn play which is the biggest and most important part of making the horn. His name is on the product no matter who made the parts and it is the horn makers reputation that is on the line here, not Joe Blow who made X,Y,Z parts.

Liad

Manny Laureano

Liad,

The statement about Dave's horns was only true only up to early this year. Dave makes everything in the shop, even the water keys. I'm in a position to know. It's a trifling matter but I wanted to have clarity about that because makers of other brands make assumptions that aren't necessarily based on fact occasionally.

ML