piccolo trumpet MODEL 59BLF (Guy Touvron)

trumpetnick · 07-02-2006, 02:37 AM

Guys,

What do you think about the Selmer piccolo mentioned in the subject line? I have a colleague who bought one but when I tried it was rather badly surprised?
I am curious to have have other people's opinion. Myself, I do not own a piccolo but plan to purchase one form Rene Spada (music shop in Burgdorf, Switzerland; in my opinion they do an excellent job, and fact is that I play their bach customized trumpets, which to my ear sound so much better that the "normal" ones. Few years ago they made a piccolo trumpet http://www.spada-music.ch/seiten/112_1.htm (as far as I know the first one was dedicated/ordered by the solo trumpeter of the Zurich Opera. Anyway, then I was amazed by the beautifull sound and easy tone production this horn had. It was very easy to hold it (much easier that the Touvron horn) with a feel near to the french besson (which I like very much: let me tell you a littel story - I went to have a lesson with James Watson in London and when took out the Besson which I hired from Spada for the occasion, he was very surprised, because he claimed that they are not produced anymore. As far as I know, Jim Watson and Maurice Murphy use such horns) but has a bigger sound. Its sounds to me like something between the Besson French and a Scherzer. Probably I would go for a Scherzer, if I was not embarrased by the rotary system which feels a bit heavy on the piccolo. I almost forgot - although it is optional, spada horn can have a trigger not only on the 3rd, but also on the 1st piston slide, which can be very usefull, as the top f sometimes (probably my playing is the reason because my trumpet teacher was doing fine without this 1st slide trigger) tends to get too sharp.

rowuk · 08-12-2006, 11:52 AM

Hi Nick,
what did you end up buying?
I find the rotary valves superior on the piccolo - I believe due to less interference in the airflow.

René Spada does a fantastic job on all his horns!

Robin

trumpetnick · 08-12-2006, 01:07 PM

Hi, Robin!

I did not buy one yet, but it will definitely be the Spada one...You should test it if you get an opportunity...Scherzer are great but not for me...my opinion is that their bell is too big for a pic (it sounds almost like an Eflat) and I have to put too much efforts for the high register. The two pics I liked the most are the spada and the shagerl (they have piston pic which offers very nice sound and not much air resistance). The schagerl and the Spada have similar prices. So I chose the Spada because I am ther client already and they offer to put a 3rd slide trigger which is very handy when is aobut to control high register notes intonation (especially top f and d which I tend to play too sharp).

Albert Castillo · 08-14-2006, 10:08 AM

Hi,
I think I know your colleague. It isn't Dimitar? I played with him in Germany with the Vidin Staatphilharmonie and Jörg in the Danube Festival. Great player!
I would speak about my picc., and why I have it. Because no very people have this opinion in piccolo playing. I play a Yamaha Custom, that is a copy of the famous Schilke, maybe diferent because the Yamaha use a normal shank. My teacher, Rodney Mack, plays too the same. But I had before a old Selmer, and I tested more piccs (Stomvi and Schagerl too). The beautiful tone I found, was in the Stomvi. But I feel they sound too beautiful. I'll explain that, If you want to play a nice picc sound for baroque and solo work, that's your instrument. But you hear the instrument and not the player. That's why I like my Yamaha: you can hear the player not the instrument. That's very flexible and I play both solo and baroque literature, as well orchestral music, with very diferent colors, but the same equipment. I can cut in tutti ff with the picc. Some of mine colleagues can't do it, with other piccs.
I recomend you to test this picc too.
And of course a classic as Schilke!
Greatings to Dimitar and all brass players in Vidin!!!!
Take care

trumpetnick · 09-27-2006, 03:04 PM

Albert, thanks for your note...I know the yamaha, stomvi too...Well, both are horns which are quite good. Generally good intonation, easy articulation, nice to blow. But is still prefer the spada or the schagerl eclipse (valve piston).
As I said Scherzer make a fantastic job too, but this horn does not suite me...seems that the bell is too big for me...I am not affraid to loose my colour while using those horns. My philosophy is based on the assumption that easier is for me to play a horn, more the colours I can make...If I have to struggle too much with intonation, resistance or any other issues related to the horn, I tend to forget about more subtle things like colours, vibrato, ronamentation etc. In the orchesral repertoire the piccolo parts are not many...I would not buy a pic just for 5-10 pieces I have to play not very often. The chamber music (mainly brass quintet), barock and renessaince repertoire are the main reasons for me to look to get one. Why great trumpeters look for great horns (Marsalis is a good example, although if I had one of this Monette horns would not automatically become as good as he is, right?)...they are not affraid to loose their colours. 2 years ago I was havng a lesson with Rod Franks (London Symphony) and we exchange for a moment our horns....He is playing yamaha (he is yamaha artist) but his B flat yamaha has nothing to do with those I tested in shops...the sound was so warm I could not believe my ears...
Thank you for the greetings, I will transfer them to Dimitar.

Brian H. Smout · 09-28-2006, 12:17 AM

Hi,

Not to hijack the thread but how does Rene Spada customize Bach trumpets besides changing the leadpipe?

Thanks,

Brian

trumpetnick · 09-28-2006, 02:44 AM

Brian,

What I will write you is what Spada was doing 2 years ago and as I said already they are constantly changing and improving their services. When I went to buy my trumpets you could test differents bells, leadpipes and tunning slides. As far as I know, at present they are not only customizing bach trumpets, but also building their own brandt of trumpets. They were customising mouthpieces too, but this service was rather limited. The most popular was to take a bach rim (or cup: not sure what is the right term in english) and screw on it a schilke backbore because of his larger size (mainly for orchestral playing). The best thing to do would be to contact them through their website at http://www.spada-music.ch/seiten/start_1.htm and ask them what they do at the moment. Though the site is entirely in german you can write to them in english. Hope this helps.

rowuk · 09-28-2006, 02:52 AM

Hi Brian,
His experience is his number one asset.
He makes a tuning bell model out of it - this alone seems to solve the "bad" intonation and uneven blow on the Bach C-trumpet (sharp third space C, flat D/Eb/E). The Bb horns are also much smoother in response.
With the tuning bell of course the bell brace is gone, which is OK for studio recordings - he therefore has a threaded post on the tuning slide which can assume this function for players needing more stability and projection.
He has a variety of leadpipes of various weights and materials including his own designs.
He has a ton of Bach parts from which he can choose. The ability to try essentially all combinations of bells and leadpipes (although his suggestions are 99 times out of 100 the best combinations) is phenomenal. Last but not least, he puts the horn together with swiss watchmaker quality. I think this quality build alone is a great improvement over the stock models.
I firmly believe it is not possible to get more out of a Bach design than with a Spada Bach. If you want that "standard" sound without any of the bad habits, this would be an excellent place to start.
He quoted me a price recently to have my Bach C-trumpet rebuilt: EUR 1,100 - about US$ 1,400. There is a waiting list........................

Brian H. Smout · 09-28-2006, 10:55 AM

Hi,

Thanks for the quick responses. Beautiful looking instruments. Breathtaking, even!

Cheers,

Brian

07-02-2006, 02:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
trumpetnick Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Brand: Spada Posts: 796	piccolo trumpet MODEL 59BLF (Guy Touvron) Guys, What do you think about the Selmer piccolo mentioned in the subject line? I have a colleague who bought one but when I tried it was rather badly surprised? I am curious to have have other people's opinion. Myself, I do not own a piccolo but plan to purchase one form Rene Spada (music shop in Burgdorf, Switzerland; in my opinion they do an excellent job, and fact is that I play their bach customized trumpets, which to my ear sound so much better that the "normal" ones. Few years ago they made a piccolo trumpet http://www.spada-music.ch/seiten/112_1.htm (as far as I know the first one was dedicated/ordered by the solo trumpeter of the Zurich Opera. Anyway, then I was amazed by the beautifull sound and easy tone production this horn had. It was very easy to hold it (much easier that the Touvron horn) with a feel near to the french besson (which I like very much: let me tell you a littel story - I went to have a lesson with James Watson in London and when took out the Besson which I hired from Spada for the occasion, he was very surprised, because he claimed that they are not produced anymore. As far as I know, Jim Watson and Maurice Murphy use such horns) but has a bigger sound. Its sounds to me like something between the Besson French and a Scherzer. Probably I would go for a Scherzer, if I was not embarrased by the rotary system which feels a bit heavy on the piccolo. I almost forgot - although it is optional, spada horn can have a trigger not only on the 3rd, but also on the 1st piston slide, which can be very usefull, as the top f sometimes (probably my playing is the reason because my trumpet teacher was doing fine without this 1st slide trigger) tends to get too sharp.
	__________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 2b6, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

08-12-2006, 11:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Brand: Nat, Piston, Rotary Posts: 3,917	Hi Nick, what did you end up buying? I find the rotary valves superior on the piccolo - I believe due to less interference in the airflow. René Spada does a fantastic job on all his horns! Robin
	__________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

08-12-2006, 01:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
trumpetnick Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Brand: Spada Posts: 796	Hi, Robin! I did not buy one yet, but it will definitely be the Spada one...You should test it if you get an opportunity...Scherzer are great but not for me...my opinion is that their bell is too big for a pic (it sounds almost like an Eflat) and I have to put too much efforts for the high register. The two pics I liked the most are the spada and the shagerl (they have piston pic which offers very nice sound and not much air resistance). The schagerl and the Spada have similar prices. So I chose the Spada because I am ther client already and they offer to put a 3rd slide trigger which is very handy when is aobut to control high register notes intonation (especially top f and d which I tend to play too sharp).
	__________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 2b6, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

08-14-2006, 10:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Brand: Schagerl-Breslmair Posts: 107	Hi, I think I know your colleague. It isn't Dimitar? I played with him in Germany with the Vidin Staatphilharmonie and Jörg in the Danube Festival. Great player! I would speak about my picc., and why I have it. Because no very people have this opinion in piccolo playing. I play a Yamaha Custom, that is a copy of the famous Schilke, maybe diferent because the Yamaha use a normal shank. My teacher, Rodney Mack, plays too the same. But I had before a old Selmer, and I tested more piccs (Stomvi and Schagerl too). The beautiful tone I found, was in the Stomvi. But I feel they sound too beautiful. I'll explain that, If you want to play a nice picc sound for baroque and solo work, that's your instrument. But you hear the instrument and not the player. That's why I like my Yamaha: you can hear the player not the instrument. That's very flexible and I play both solo and baroque literature, as well orchestral music, with very diferent colors, but the same equipment. I can cut in tutti ff with the picc. Some of mine colleagues can't do it, with other piccs. I recomend you to test this picc too. And of course a classic as Schilke! Greatings to Dimitar and all brass players in Vidin!!!! Take care
	__________________ Albert A. Castillo

09-27-2006, 03:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
trumpetnick Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Brand: Spada Posts: 796	Albert, thanks for your note...I know the yamaha, stomvi too...Well, both are horns which are quite good. Generally good intonation, easy articulation, nice to blow. But is still prefer the spada or the schagerl eclipse (valve piston). As I said Scherzer make a fantastic job too, but this horn does not suite me...seems that the bell is too big for me...I am not affraid to loose my colour while using those horns. My philosophy is based on the assumption that easier is for me to play a horn, more the colours I can make...If I have to struggle too much with intonation, resistance or any other issues related to the horn, I tend to forget about more subtle things like colours, vibrato, ronamentation etc. In the orchesral repertoire the piccolo parts are not many...I would not buy a pic just for 5-10 pieces I have to play not very often. The chamber music (mainly brass quintet), barock and renessaince repertoire are the main reasons for me to look to get one. Why great trumpeters look for great horns (Marsalis is a good example, although if I had one of this Monette horns would not automatically become as good as he is, right?)...they are not affraid to loose their colours. 2 years ago I was havng a lesson with Rod Franks (London Symphony) and we exchange for a moment our horns....He is playing yamaha (he is yamaha artist) but his B flat yamaha has nothing to do with those I tested in shops...the sound was so warm I could not believe my ears... Thank you for the greetings, I will transfer them to Dimitar.
	__________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 2b6, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

09-28-2006, 12:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
Brian H. Smout Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Swift Current, Sask. Canada Posts: 111	Hi, Not to hijack the thread but how does Rene Spada customize Bach trumpets besides changing the leadpipe? Thanks, Brian
	__________________ "Swift Current - where we're neither swift nor current"

09-28-2006, 02:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
trumpetnick Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Brand: Spada Posts: 796	Brian, What I will write you is what Spada was doing 2 years ago and as I said already they are constantly changing and improving their services. When I went to buy my trumpets you could test differents bells, leadpipes and tunning slides. As far as I know, at present they are not only customizing bach trumpets, but also building their own brandt of trumpets. They were customising mouthpieces too, but this service was rather limited. The most popular was to take a bach rim (or cup: not sure what is the right term in english) and screw on it a schilke backbore because of his larger size (mainly for orchestral playing). The best thing to do would be to contact them through their website at http://www.spada-music.ch/seiten/start_1.htm and ask them what they do at the moment. Though the site is entirely in german you can write to them in english. Hope this helps.
	__________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 2b6, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

09-28-2006, 02:52 AM	#8 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Brand: Nat, Piston, Rotary Posts: 3,917	Hi Brian, His experience is his number one asset. He makes a tuning bell model out of it - this alone seems to solve the "bad" intonation and uneven blow on the Bach C-trumpet (sharp third space C, flat D/Eb/E). The Bb horns are also much smoother in response. With the tuning bell of course the bell brace is gone, which is OK for studio recordings - he therefore has a threaded post on the tuning slide which can assume this function for players needing more stability and projection. He has a variety of leadpipes of various weights and materials including his own designs. He has a ton of Bach parts from which he can choose. The ability to try essentially all combinations of bells and leadpipes (although his suggestions are 99 times out of 100 the best combinations) is phenomenal. Last but not least, he puts the horn together with swiss watchmaker quality. I think this quality build alone is a great improvement over the stock models. I firmly believe it is not possible to get more out of a Bach design than with a Spada Bach. If you want that "standard" sound without any of the bad habits, this would be an excellent place to start. He quoted me a price recently to have my Bach C-trumpet rebuilt: EUR 1,100 - about US$ 1,400. There is a waiting list........................
	__________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

09-28-2006, 10:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
Brian H. Smout Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Swift Current, Sask. Canada Posts: 111	Hi, Thanks for the quick responses. Beautiful looking instruments. Breathtaking, even! Cheers, Brian
	__________________ "Swift Current - where we're neither swift nor current"

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