chryxz

I recently have been experiencing valve problems (sticking) with my horn beyond what I consider to be normal. I'm in college so I showed my horn to my professor at my lesson. She told me that the valves had worn down and were moving a little horizontally. This explains why they are sticking. She played it and told me something I wasn't aware of. My horn is leaking air. Now, I have never noticed this, but it makes sense that I wouldn't notice or know what it feels like since I've played on this horn for the past seven years or so.

She told me I need to get my valves replated (this was confirmed by the repair shop at our school), and also check for leaks. Valve replating looks pretty costly, and I can only imagine what fixing a leak would cost. She also said that I might just be better of getting a new one. The thing is, I don't have much money. I know I need to have a horn to play. I'm going to have to use this horn for juries, but I definitely have to find a solution over break.

I know it's difficult to give advice over the internet, but is it worth repairing my horn? Or should I start shopping?

In case it matters, I play a standard Bach 37 ml that I bought 7 years ago.

Thanks,
Chris

Miyot

Where is the horn leaking air? Spit valves, Lead pipe, or lots of places. Seven years doesn't seem long enough to wear out the valves unless you really played a lot or you got the horn used. If the horn is leaking air at the slides, a heavier slide lube could be a quick fix. I read somewhere on this site you could clean your valves with acetone. Being careful not to get this on your felts, plastic, etc. This could help with sticking valves.

If you have red rot and it is limited to the lead pipe you could get that replaced. If you have red rot everywhere, I'd get a new or used horn. A good cleaning and close exam with a light should help with your decision.

Being careful to push the valves straight down, with no lateral or sideways movement could work. I don't know how much replating valves would cost. You could either get the horn repaired or get another one. See,I knew I could help you. Don't listen to me, someone else on this site will surely know more than I.

rowuk

The issue of leaky valves is still VERY controversial. Many players actually prefer well broken in valves!

Regardless of wear, they should not stick and my first suggestion is to change valve oil brand. I use a synthetic oil (UltraPure now, LaTromba T2 earlier) on my 1911 Holton long cornet with valves so worn that you can really see the horizontal movement. They do not stick - ever. The same applies to other worn historic instruments!

Proper oiling could solve your problem: remove the valves, clean them and the valve block with a brush and some soapy water. Run a swab through the block and then wait until the valve and block are bone dry! Oil floats on water, so if the valves are moist, you will not get metal to metal lubrication (important). If you just oil on top of the old oil, you have the same issue with moisture AND the problem of dirt (metal and food particles as well as the aerosals from your breath) that collects in the oil. All you have done is to thin out the sludge.

While I think tight valves CAN be an advantage, the difference is not night and day AND regardless, the valves should not stick. Save your money until you can really afford the overhaul, or find something else new/used that is better.

chryxz

Thanks for the advice! I will definitely try some new oil before I do anything too drastic.



-Chris

oldlou

Chris; I wonder about the make and model of your horn, its age general condition, etc. to determine if a valve rebuild,( including replate ) is economically feasable. More info please.


I am the owner and player of a rather healthy sized stable of vintage trumpets and cornets, so I am familiar with your problem. The advice to first thoroughly clean and dry your horn and its valves is valid advice. Use of a thicker valve oil is another trick to seal up leaky valves. It does make the valves slightly sluggish, though. If it is deemed economically feasable and that no other remedy exists for your valves, contact David Williams Thebrassmaster@earthlink.net or 850-224-9909.Dave does total valve rebuilds and alignments for $200.00 for all three valves, complete,+ $25.00 for packaging and return shipping. Dave does fine work and is currently rebuilding the valves of my prized and rare York Master Model trumpet.


OLDLOU>>

Vulgano Brother

1. Bravo to Miyot, rowuk and oldlou! Good answers all!
2. If you determine that the slides are leaking, you can expand the ends of the inside tubes using an old mouthpiece shank--extremely cheap.
3. To check for leaks: remove the first valve slide, depress the first valve, put you thumb firmly over the slide where air comes out, and blow. You can feel if it is leaking, and a free hand can feel where air is shooting out, or you can rub some spit (yucky, but this is a Vulgano trick, after all) on the joints and look for bubbles.
Your solutions in order are:
1. Lubricants
2. Careful expansion of metal
3. Addition of metal (by a repairman-even Vulgani don't, as a rule, mess with this stuff on their own horns).
Good luck!

Patric_Bernard

Also for future reference, Make sure that when you play, you play with your fingers in the same position each time, making sure that you push the valves up and down exactly the same each time. Applying pressure in a different downward motion for awhile, and then changing the direction you push down could affect your valves stickiness.

DQsCustomShop

I would be a little reluctant to believe a 7 year old bach has leaky valves. Valve tolerance standards of today are much higher than they were 30 some years ago. Unless your professor is a skilled technician, I would consult with a SKILLED technician before anything else.

You can try heavier oils as some people have suggested, but make sure eveyrthing is extremely clean before you do. If there is dirt, coffee, and food particles floating aroudn the oil wont help much. There are lots of things I would do, but I can only assume yo udo not have al of the tools I do.

ONLY TRY THIS IF YOU ARE CONFIDENT IN YOUR MECHANICAL ABILITIES. I DO THIS SORT OF THING ON BACH STRADS EVERYDAY

They make these trumpet swab sticks that are about 4 or 5 inches long. It has a ring at one end and an eye (like a flute swab stick) at the other. If you cant find one, get one of those flute sticks. Bare in mind THIS IS A METAL OBJECT, so use common sense and be very very careful. Wrap a cloth tightly around the stick so that it fits snugly in your valve casing and no metal is showing. We are looking for friction and a little bit of heat here. Swab those casings until you stop getting black on your cloth. This could take quite sometime. Once you have completed this process, try your valves in the casings dry. If they feel the way they should dry, try them with some oil. If this does not solve the problem, take it to a competent technician. If there is not a competent tech in your area, I would be happy to look at it for you.

Again, if you dont feel confident in yourself to do this, take it to a shop and dont ruin your horn. I see 30 some year olf Bach strads on a regular basis that dont need valves rebuilt. If you are the first and only owner I would say it is highly unlikely this trumpet needs a refit... stranger thigns have happened though.

If there is no tech in your area, there are a few more tricks up my sleeve, so if what I have said doesnt work let me know. We will get you through those juries.

DQ

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Patric_Bernard

lol... I dont think you need technical abilities to clean out your valve casings