SteveRicks

I have noticed several adds and posts where different well known professional trumpet players state they are designing new horns. To me, this would seem a little scary. Because one is a great performer on a horn, wouldn't mean one knows anything about the physics, metals, bores, etc. needed to produce a top horn. In fact, it is a bit like having an astronaut say they are designing the next space vehicle. Just because they can fly it, doesn't mean they know anything about the engineering involved.

When trumpet players claim to be designing horns, does it mean they are talking with the machinists etc. saying I want it to be more open, it needs to slot better, I think the tone is too dark" or are they actually DESIGNING the horn? I hope it is more like Michael Jordon and tennis shoes. He can tell someone else what he wants or doesn't like about a pair of shoes, but the chemisty of materials and physics behind the shoe is left to others.

I'm by no means knocking those who endorse horns. It is nice to have a pro state what they like about certain horns -and if they get the sound out of it, at least you know the horn is capable of doing what the pro does with it (provided you are also capable).

Steve
Olds Super 1946, 1953, 1962
Olds Recording 1952
Bach Strad 1967, 1970

tedh1951

Yet Steve, this is exactly how Harrelson's conduct their business - even allowing rank amatuer comeback community concert band 'muso' type part time players to design their own horns.

Exceptional advice, a range of stock parts with known features, and an artisan doing the construction - seems like a great formula to me. If one, such as I, can 'design' a horn with reasonable outcome, then why not someone who knows a lot more?

I don't suppose though that you would be interested in a bronzed bell, reverse leadpipe, semi-round tuning slide, Amado water keyed, silverplated "Ted" trumpet now would you?

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Ted

rettepnoj

How does your Harrelson play??

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Jon Petter Lindberg

Selmer Concept TT
Bach Strad. 197 NY, nr 203
Schilke S32
Yamaha YTR 6310Z
Yamaha YTR 01
Conn Constelation

GR and Schilke mouthpieces

tedh1951

I'll let you know in detail soon - Jason reckons it will be nice - the instrument I played before ordering was nicely open, good slotting, and a lovely tone - I quite like what I think I'm getting. And it's only money, and I don't have a Harrellson - yet.

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Ted

rettepnoj

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Jon Petter Lindberg

Selmer Concept TT
Bach Strad. 197 NY, nr 203
Schilke S32
Yamaha YTR 6310Z
Yamaha YTR 01
Conn Constelation

GR and Schilke mouthpieces

ewetho

Some have the background to analyze the piece of pip we call a trumpet others do not. But an actual pro can realistically design a horn (sure not knowing a dang thing) by telling them he like X&Y and could you try a different pipe shape here or what not. He did the design and play-testing to come up with his ideal. Other such as Claude Gordon actually took the design to a manufacturer Such as he did with Benge and got close to what he wanted and tweaked his design for the limitations of their operation. Later got what he wanted from Selmer and thus the two different CG horns.

So exactly what extent each is involved is debatable but heck even now you can decide that you want a new Bach Bb with a.468 bore, 43 sterling bell, 43 Reverse leadpipe, round tuning slide and since it is not a regular model you designed it. But you did not design the individual parts. Also with the new Models they can also spec other things like bracing changes and placement changes to get the response they want.

Heck 65Strad designed his custom from the Bach/Dillon contest. That is his baby based on original Bach designs.

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Kanstul Chicago 1001 w/ CG Personal GP
Conn 80A w/ CG Personal GP

SteveRicks

Well, I am learning. Maybe I was reading too much into the word "Design." I know what a reverse leadpipe does, I know what a larger bore (usually) does, and more copper in the bell, etc. Given 5 bell choices, reverse or standard leadpipe, 3 choices of bore, trigger or throw, pinky ring or not, 0, 1 or 2 braces on the tuning slide, and broad or slow flair, I could probably get something close to what I would like. But I think of that as more putting together standardized parts-more like picking the options on your Toyota. Guess I was reading more into the word "design." I was thinking figuring the exact metal composition, bore, taper, thickness of each piece of metal etc. Live and learn.

Again, my question wasn't meant to insult anyone who is or has designed horns. Apparently, some good combinations have come out of the process, far b etter than what I could do.

Steve

Again, the

TrumpetLucian

When a pro like Roger Ingram or Wayne "design a horn" they aren't building the horn, or telling someone how to make a trumpet. It is them designing the horn because they get the horns, test them, and then make comments on how the horn could be better, then the experts from the respective companies make heads and tails of the feedback, and improve the horn.

Its the equivalent of the astronaut in the flight simulator commenting on the ease of flight and things that don't feel right.

I recently had a custom mouthpiece made. Its a hybrid of two lead pieces, and I told the maker (Karl Hammond) the attributes of the pieces, and took the best from each and molded it into one piece. I told him I wanted a tight efficient backbore, and one that would match my horn (Xeno). He did the rest. I told him how I wanted the plane to fly, and he designed it for what the pilot likes (with his expert knowledge of planes, or in this case, a mouthpiece.

tedh1951

Steve,

Your post DID NOT come across as insulting at all. You, like me, know what you like. It's like paint - you don't make the paint but you certainly artistically arrange it to your "satisfaction" and 'create the picture'.

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Ted

ewetho

Hopefully it was not me who made you think you insulted someone...

Really, anytime a pro gets involved and make a manufacturer change his design to suit him who really designed it??? Probably could argue the manufacturer still.

Heck if I wanted a lightweight .468 bore Bach then who designed it??? Not a standard option. Who's concept is it???

Semantics in the end. If the manufacturer allows it to be called a SO & SO designed horn then it is. Very few were involved as far as Claude was on his horns but oh well....

In the end it sure is fun getting to see what makes these guys tick though!!! I think it was Jens who said his was designed for him... While others are really concerned about getting a certain thing out of a horn that is not available normally.

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Kanstul Chicago 1001 w/ CG Personal GP
Conn 80A w/ CG Personal GP