Stuffy Callet Symphonique?

pwillini · 10-23-2004, 04:55 PM

I've borrowed a friend's Callet Symphonique, an earlier manifestation of Jerome's Jazz. I have a hard time thinking this is a large bore horn, it's so stuffy! I've tried 3 JC mouthpieces, no avail. I wrote Jerome and he called me! (an honor!) He said he saw no reason the horn should not be stuffy, i just needed to play through the horn instead of at the mouthpiece.

I've tried all this and still find it harder to play than the Wild Thing I demo'ed through this site, a Chicago Benge and another friend's Bach LB 72. Any thoughts? I would think that I should be able to get a more consistant, sound from this horn but can't.

I was thinking of buying this horn but am glad I tried one before I did, especially since they cost as much as a WT, which I just loved!

musicalmason · 10-23-2004, 07:48 PM

I never found the .464 callet jazz (basically the same horn) very open either. I think its that conical bore idea but Im not sure. alot of people like them, I didnt like it. you might just have a dud, its hard to tell.

ScreaminRaider · 10-24-2004, 10:55 AM

Here is a perfect example of a horn that simply doesn't work for you. I've played on a symphinique before, and absolutly loved it. Have you tried a Strad yet? Kanstul also makes good C's. Remember, just because the horn doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's a "Dud."

Heavens2kadonka · 10-24-2004, 10:36 PM

Well, the horn that I've found doesn't work for me is the Conn Vintage One. It was a very good looking horn, and I thought including two tune slides and two types of valve caps were pretty neat, but it was such a hard-blowing horn. With the rounded tune slide, it was a bit more tolerable, but with the square... A normal, Bach forte was a mezzo-piano through the V1. Maybe the horn was a bad one, but I know I'll still cringe a little bit whenever I see someone playing on one...

So yeah, don't sweat too much about it. You may find you love this horn that everyone else hates (Like whoever it was who liked that Arturo Sandoval..).

Van

tom turner · 10-25-2004, 11:42 PM

Hi,

The Symphonique IS basically a Callet Jazz that's renamed so the legit players don't mind taking it to orchestra like they might if it said "Jazz" on it. It also had plastic valve guides (vs. metal used today) but that's just an evolutionary thing.

I suspect what happened is that you played an older instrument that someone had the bad habit of twisting their mouthpiece into the receiver each and every time that they put the horn together.

This terrible practice (that I sometimes see people doing) turns the mouthpiece's shank into a reamer that opens up the diameter of the reciever until a stock mouthpiece fits in so far that there's no gap left. Without the proper gap any trumpet will get really stuffy and not play correctly.

Another way to "ream" out the receiver until there's no gap is if someone accidentally crammed a mouthpiece in really hard and it has to be removed with a special tool. After all . . . the receiver is just brass, which is a soft metal!

This can also occur when someone uses a mouthpiece with an out-of-spec shank that's too small in diameter . . . such as when using an old mouthpiece. In your case though, I'm sure it is the receiver that's worn.

The Callet Jazz is my second most favorite Bb trumpet . . . and you know what my favorite is! It is a horn that's freer blowing than most . . . so I suspect a gap issue has occured. A really bad valve alignment can mess up things too . . . but never as bad as a "no gap" situation!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

trickg · 10-26-2004, 08:08 AM

You know, I played a Callet Superchops once that just didn't work for me. I don't know if it was my mouthpiece, the gap, my chops, etc. It could have been any number of things that just weren't quite in line for me. Apparently they weren't quite in line for the original owner of the horn either because he sold it! ;) Horns that he has owned since then? An old Conn Victor, a Conn V1, a raw brass ZueS G, and a Lawler, all of which were better for me than the Superchops.

BUT....don't think for a minute that the Superchops was a "bad" horn, because I don' think that it was. I just don't think that it matched my mouthpiece or the way that I play.

pwillini · 10-26-2004, 09:59 AM

Tom,

I borrowed the Callet from the other trumpeter in Kzoo that toured the Wild Thing. He too has noted the stuffiness of the horn. After you told me about the gap from his trial I tried increasing the gap with all of my mps, but without avail. I wondered too about the valves, I noticed the numbers on the barrels don't all point the same way but they do seat according to the valve guides. I suppose the alignment could be off, if I were buying this horn I'd send it back to Jerry to see what he could do for me to open it up. But since the Wild Thing is just what I'm looking for.........

I tried several "techniques", as suggested by several other trumpet playing aquaintances ie playing through the horn, don't worry about the mouthpiece, use the whole horn, etc. So cliche. I played it Sunday morning at church. People loved the music but all of them noted the difference between this horn and the Wild Thing, which I played for them last month. Oh yea, the Wild Thing it is!

wavestar · 10-26-2004, 11:57 AM

I have a '90 Jazz modified by Jerry in '96 when I was using a JC 10S Magnum, the combo of the two opened it up, however the biggest change came when I switched to a M MFII mpc and it is now very close to my Wild Thing with an M MFIII mpc.

gzent · 10-26-2004, 05:27 PM

pwillini,

I played a friend's Callet Jazz a couple months after getting my Zeus and I had almost the same impression. The notes above the staff were just not there. I've never experienced it so noticeably with any horn but his.

Maybe its a coincidence, but it is strange.

Greg

gzent · 10-26-2004, 05:36 PM

BTW,

A Callet Jazz costs as much as a Wild Thing? What's up with that?
Its no more unique than any of the Kanstul Signature horns, and they are all under $2000.

10-23-2004, 04:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
pwillini Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 135	Stuffy Callet Symphonique? I've borrowed a friend's Callet Symphonique, an earlier manifestation of Jerome's Jazz. I have a hard time thinking this is a large bore horn, it's so stuffy! I've tried 3 JC mouthpieces, no avail. I wrote Jerome and he called me! (an honor!) He said he saw no reason the horn should not be stuffy, i just needed to play through the horn instead of at the mouthpiece. I've tried all this and still find it harder to play than the Wild Thing I demo'ed through this site, a Chicago Benge and another friend's Bach LB 72. Any thoughts? I would think that I should be able to get a more consistant, sound from this horn but can't. I was thinking of buying this horn but am glad I tried one before I did, especially since they cost as much as a WT, which I just loved! __________________ Music's only purpose should be the glory of God and the recreation of the human spirit - J. S. Bach 2004 ZeuS Olympus ARLX 1976 Bach 37 Strad 1990 Blessing ML1-G Artist Edition 1917 Conn Victor New Wonder Cornet

10-23-2004, 07:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
musicalmason Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 192	I never found the .464 callet jazz (basically the same horn) very open either. I think its that conical bore idea but Im not sure. alot of people like them, I didnt like it. you might just have a dud, its hard to tell. __________________ Bach strad 180s ML 25 37 Bach Strad 65 vindabona raw Callet Grand prix .470 Chicago benge L bore warburton 3 rims getzen capri flugel marc. 3fld

10-24-2004, 10:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
ScreaminRaider Piano User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 407	Here is a perfect example of a horn that simply doesn't work for you. I've played on a symphinique before, and absolutly loved it. Have you tried a Strad yet? Kanstul also makes good C's. Remember, just because the horn doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's a "Dud." __________________ Jonathan Wright

10-24-2004, 10:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Heavens2kadonka Forte User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Carthage, TN Posts: 1,283	Well, the horn that I've found doesn't work for me is the Conn Vintage One. It was a very good looking horn, and I thought including two tune slides and two types of valve caps were pretty neat, but it was such a hard-blowing horn. With the rounded tune slide, it was a bit more tolerable, but with the square... A normal, Bach forte was a mezzo-piano through the V1. Maybe the horn was a bad one, but I know I'll still cringe a little bit whenever I see someone playing on one... So yeah, don't sweat too much about it. You may find you love this horn that everyone else hates (Like whoever it was who liked that Arturo Sandoval..). Van __________________ Stage 1 California Light '94 Bach Strad 37 1900 Eb Cornet LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C LOUD LM93

10-26-2004, 08:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	You know, I played a Callet Superchops once that just didn't work for me. I don't know if it was my mouthpiece, the gap, my chops, etc. It could have been any number of things that just weren't quite in line for me. Apparently they weren't quite in line for the original owner of the horn either because he sold it! ;) Horns that he has owned since then? An old Conn Victor, a Conn V1, a raw brass ZueS G, and a Lawler, all of which were better for me than the Superchops. BUT....don't think for a minute that the Superchops was a "bad" horn, because I don' think that it was. I just don't think that it matched my mouthpiece or the way that I play. __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

10-25-2004, 11:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
tom turner Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 788	Hi, The Symphonique IS basically a Callet Jazz that's renamed so the legit players don't mind taking it to orchestra like they might if it said "Jazz" on it. It also had plastic valve guides (vs. metal used today) but that's just an evolutionary thing. I suspect what happened is that you played an older instrument that someone had the bad habit of twisting their mouthpiece into the receiver each and every time that they put the horn together. This terrible practice (that I sometimes see people doing) turns the mouthpiece's shank into a reamer that opens up the diameter of the reciever until a stock mouthpiece fits in so far that there's no gap left. Without the proper gap any trumpet will get really stuffy and not play correctly. Another way to "ream" out the receiver until there's no gap is if someone accidentally crammed a mouthpiece in really hard and it has to be removed with a special tool. After all . . . the receiver is just brass, which is a soft metal! This can also occur when someone uses a mouthpiece with an out-of-spec shank that's too small in diameter . . . such as when using an old mouthpiece. In your case though, I'm sure it is the receiver that's worn. The Callet Jazz is my second most favorite Bb trumpet . . . and you know what my favorite is! It is a horn that's freer blowing than most . . . so I suspect a gap issue has occured. A really bad valve alignment can mess up things too . . . but never as bad as a "no gap" situation! Sincerely, Tom Turner

10-26-2004, 09:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
pwillini Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 135	Gap problem, probably not Tom, I borrowed the Callet from the other trumpeter in Kzoo that toured the Wild Thing. He too has noted the stuffiness of the horn. After you told me about the gap from his trial I tried increasing the gap with all of my mps, but without avail. I wondered too about the valves, I noticed the numbers on the barrels don't all point the same way but they do seat according to the valve guides. I suppose the alignment could be off, if I were buying this horn I'd send it back to Jerry to see what he could do for me to open it up. But since the Wild Thing is just what I'm looking for......... I tried several "techniques", as suggested by several other trumpet playing aquaintances ie playing through the horn, don't worry about the mouthpiece, use the whole horn, etc. So cliche. I played it Sunday morning at church. People loved the music but all of them noted the difference between this horn and the Wild Thing, which I played for them last month. Oh yea, the Wild Thing it is! __________________ Music's only purpose should be the glory of God and the recreation of the human spirit - J. S. Bach 2004 ZeuS Olympus ARLX 1976 Bach 37 Strad 1990 Blessing ML1-G Artist Edition 1917 Conn Victor New Wonder Cornet

10-26-2004, 11:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
wavestar New Friend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: florida Posts: 4	I have a '90 Jazz modified by Jerry in '96 when I was using a JC 10S Magnum, the combo of the two opened it up, however the biggest change came when I switched to a M MFII mpc and it is now very close to my Wild Thing with an M MFIII mpc. __________________ Callet Jazz 1990 mod 1997 M MFII Wild Thing M MFIII, MFIIIPrana Strad Valve Trombone B14D Callet Jazz Flugle JC7F Monette Prana II Flumpet Prana MFIII Fl grandpa was a bandmaster, snake-oil inventor, and had 7 musical kids

10-26-2004, 05:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
gzent Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,515	pwillini, I played a friend's Callet Jazz a couple months after getting my Zeus and I had almost the same impression. The notes above the staff were just not there. I've never experienced it so noticeably with any horn but his. Maybe its a coincidence, but it is strange. Greg __________________ Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revalation And the mind's true liberation

10-26-2004, 05:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
gzent Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,515	BTW, A Callet Jazz costs as much as a Wild Thing? What's up with that? Its no more unique than any of the Kanstul Signature horns, and they are all under $2000. __________________ Harmony and understanding Sympathy and trust abounding No more falsehoods or derisions Golden living dreams of visions Mystic crystal revalation And the mind's true liberation

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