Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel?

bluespiderweb · 03-20-2008, 11:42 AM

Hi Folks! I'm new around these parts, and I'm interested in starting to play one of these instruments. A little background-the last time I played a valved instrument was in 8th grade (ca 1967), and that was a Sousaphone, which I played for a little over 3 years in school band. Since then I've played mainly acoustic guitar, but some fiddle, dobro, mando, and more recently Irish low whistle and flute, and a little silver flute too.

1) Which of these 3 can play the quietest (without a mute) and still have a nice tone and playability? I live in an apartment with thin walls, so I will probably use a mute too, but mostly I'd like to be able to have a nice full tone to enjoy while I play. And, I only play for me (cats and wife excepted when they are in earshot).

2) Which will take less energy to play? As I'm getting older (54) and creaky, I find that I don't have as much energy to put into my playing, so easy is good. I know with time and practice, technique will improve and make things easier too, but how would you rank these for ease of play overall? Note I don't mean difficulty to master-I'm not looking to become an orchestral player or earn a living from it-just to enjoy playing and hearing some nice tones.

3) I will be looking on the lower end of the used market for this, and I realize that a trumpet would be easiest to find a good horn, then cornet and finally flugel, but my preferences for tone might be in the other order, for mellowness. I did read that the flugelhorn is harder to play quietly, depending on the bore size, but I have no practical experience with any of them, so your input would be appreciated. Maybe the trumpet can be played very mellow too-if you pick the right one, along with a different choice in mouthpiece?

Your thoughts? Thanks for any help or suggestions you may have too.

Be well, Barry

oldlou · 03-20-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluespiderweb

Hi Folks! I'm new around these parts, and I'm interested in starting to play one of these instruments. A little background-the last time I played a valved instrument was in 8th grade (ca 1967), and that was a Sousaphone, which I played for a little over 3 years in school band. Since then I've played mainly acoustic guitar, but some fiddle, dobro, mando, and more recently Irish low whistle and flute, and a little silver flute too.

1) Which of these 3 can play the quietest (without a mute) and still have a nice tone and playability? I live in an apartment with thin walls, so I will probably use a mute too, but mostly I'd like to be able to have a nice full tone to enjoy while I play. And, I only play for me (cats and wife excepted when they are in earshot).

2) Which will take less energy to play? As I'm getting older (54) and creaky, I find that I don't have as much energy to put into my playing, so easy is good. I know with time and practice, technique will improve and make things easier too, but how would you rank these for ease of play overall? Note I don't mean difficulty to master-I'm not looking to become an orchestral player or earn a living from it-just to enjoy playing and hearing some nice tones.

3) I will be looking on the lower end of the used market for this, and I realize that a trumpet would be easiest to find a good horn, then cornet and finally flugel, but my preferences for tone might be in the other order, for mellowness. I did read that the flugelhorn is harder to play quietly, depending on the bore size, but I have no practical experience with any of them, so your input would be appreciated. Maybe the trumpet can be played very mellow too-if you pick the right one, along with a different choice in mouthpiece?

Your thoughts? Thanks for any help or suggestions you may have too.

Be well, Barry

You are paralleling my experience. I was a decent trumpeter through college and a short bit beyond when I gave it up because someone stole my very valuable artist grade trumpet from the closet in my room at the BOQ where I was stationed. I was away from the horns for about 45 years. I started back on a fine cornet. My thinking being that the cornet does not project quite like a trumpet, yet, both take the same mutes. Flugel mutes are rare and a bit pricey.

OLDLOU>>

Dale Proctor · 03-20-2008, 12:04 PM

For ease of playing, nice sound, and an inexpensive used horn, I'd suggest a used Olds Ambassador cornet from eBay, if you frequent there. Buy one made in Fullerton CA for three reasons: It will be newer (relatively speaking - 1960's or 70's), will be cheaper (everyone wants the older Los Angeles ones), and it will take a standard cornet mouthpiece (most of the older L.A. ones used a funky, obsolete mouthpiece size). They are built really well and play pretty good, too. Not a pro horn, but a great value for someone just sticking their toes in the water...

I'm suggesting a cornet for the mellow tone and relative ease of play. A trumpet will be more brash, and a cheap flugelhorn, well..., you don't want one. The intonation would be bad and you'd still pay more for one than you would for a better cornet or trumpet.

trumpetnick · 03-20-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Proctor

(everyone wants the older Los Angeles ones), .

I would really like to get a 1977 cornet ambassador with a shepperd crook, but never found one on ebay...I guess that they are qind of rare...

Dale Proctor · 03-20-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trumpetnick

I would really like to get a 1977 cornet ambassador with a shepperd crook, but never found one on ebay...I guess that they are qind of rare...

They are very rare, and are a pro-line horn that for some reason was marketed under the "Ambassador" name. If you find one and the seller knows what it is, it won't be cheap.

BTW, to the original poster - a good, used Ambassador cornet should go for $100 or less on eBay.

Toobz · 03-20-2008, 01:38 PM

I also recommend an Olds Ambassador. I have the trumpet and favor it over the Yamaha's (23 series) I have had . If you're looking for a Shepard's crook cornet for cheap. You can find a Bach CR 310 (Not the CR 300) for less than $200.00 on Ebay, sometimes less than $150.00. ( I got mine for $130.00 plus shipping ) Mine plays real well and is a much better horn than the Yamaha cornet I used to own.
However, for the most bang for the buck, an Olds Ambassador Cornet will be near impossible to beat for the price.

Happy Canuck · 03-20-2008, 01:45 PM

To Bluespiderweb, I'd agree with an Olds cornet, good horns and at the low end of the family really great prices (except for the refurbed Ambassador on eBay right now for $500+!!)

And to Trumpetnick, in my eBay watching I've seen about 6 Ambassador A6S cornets, the Shepherds Crook one. And I won 2 of them! If you are interested PM me and I'll get pictures and prices. They really are great horns! There was/is one posted on the TH Marketplace by Laurie in Aus, but he has also posted that he is ill and not able to focus on selling right now.

Dale, there was a person selling an A6S and she didn't know that it was a pro horn. She had called the 'new Olds' and they said that the Ambassador was a student horn. It took a while for me to convince her that they were pro horns, she changed her auction and sold it for a good price. I did see a brass version of one on eBay once as a Reynolds horn, must have been a prototype that they never introduced.

First one, Gold Plated

Second, Silver

Dale Proctor · 03-20-2008, 01:51 PM

Hi Bill - I would really like to have found one of those when I was looking for a shepherds crook cornet years ago. I even had my '49 Ambassador bell reshaped to that style. It was still no A6, though. I eventually sold the Olds and bought a Bach 184, and am happy with it.

rowuk · 03-20-2008, 02:00 PM

BSW,
there is a lot of great advice here, but I would like to disagree with you a bit. I don't think that you should play just for yourself(and your neighbors). I think you should find a wind band locally where you can share your accomplishments. Brass instruments are really social institutions!

good luck!

godchaser · 03-20-2008, 03:56 PM

.

'I live in an apartment with thin walls..'

Hey Barry. I had to give up the horn as a kid, for the same reason. Course if you'll have a room set aside for music, and the Mrs. doesn't mind- you might could soundproof it. If so, i'd say the Trumpet, no question! -But it sounds like you might well appreciate a Cornet more than anything?

'As I'm getting older (54) and creaky, I find that I don't have as much energy to put into my playing..'

No reason in today's world, you should feel like that Barry. You didn't ask, but you get with an MD that knows what the heck's going on, and you'll be on top of the world for a few bucks a month. There's a directory prompt at the top of the page here: WorldHealth.net - Anti-Aging and Longevity -that will locate sombody convenient. Shoot, a generic supplement regime likely wouldn't be much more than a little DHEA- some Resveratrol; CoEnzyme Q-10, and a high potency Multi-vita/mineral/nutrient. -This, or something along that line; along with some twenty-minute daily walks/exercise, good eats and plenty of water...

...Pleeeeze -you'll be smokin' the young bucks at the gig, just for kicks and giggles. HAAAA- :) Enjoy. Course the Doc will obviously keep you dialed in with whatever your blood work, and proper levels call for, given your interested. Apologies for speaking off topic.

If you happen to decide on the Trumpet; i've seen folks braggin' on Eastman Winds -Just saw another post about their equipment the other day. Apparently a lot of Players are real impressed with their "Pro" Playability and Quality, despite being real inexpensive. Think i read $400.00 NEW, for the 420G model?

Chris

-

03-20-2008, 11:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
bluespiderweb New Friend Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southeast PA near Philly Posts: 11	Which one: trumpet, cornet or flugel? Hi Folks! I'm new around these parts, and I'm interested in starting to play one of these instruments. A little background-the last time I played a valved instrument was in 8th grade (ca 1967), and that was a Sousaphone, which I played for a little over 3 years in school band. Since then I've played mainly acoustic guitar, but some fiddle, dobro, mando, and more recently Irish low whistle and flute, and a little silver flute too. 1) Which of these 3 can play the quietest (without a mute) and still have a nice tone and playability? I live in an apartment with thin walls, so I will probably use a mute too, but mostly I'd like to be able to have a nice full tone to enjoy while I play. And, I only play for me (cats and wife excepted when they are in earshot). 2) Which will take less energy to play? As I'm getting older (54) and creaky, I find that I don't have as much energy to put into my playing, so easy is good. I know with time and practice, technique will improve and make things easier too, but how would you rank these for ease of play overall? Note I don't mean difficulty to master-I'm not looking to become an orchestral player or earn a living from it-just to enjoy playing and hearing some nice tones. 3) I will be looking on the lower end of the used market for this, and I realize that a trumpet would be easiest to find a good horn, then cornet and finally flugel, but my preferences for tone might be in the other order, for mellowness. I did read that the flugelhorn is harder to play quietly, depending on the bore size, but I have no practical experience with any of them, so your input would be appreciated. Maybe the trumpet can be played very mellow too-if you pick the right one, along with a different choice in mouthpiece? Your thoughts? Thanks for any help or suggestions you may have too. Be well, Barry Last edited by bluespiderweb; 03-26-2008 at 03:51 PM. Reason: clearer title

03-20-2008, 12:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dale Proctor Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 704	Re: Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel? For ease of playing, nice sound, and an inexpensive used horn, I'd suggest a used Olds Ambassador cornet from eBay, if you frequent there. Buy one made in Fullerton CA for three reasons: It will be newer (relatively speaking - 1960's or 70's), will be cheaper (everyone wants the older Los Angeles ones), and it will take a standard cornet mouthpiece (most of the older L.A. ones used a funky, obsolete mouthpiece size). They are built really well and play pretty good, too. Not a pro horn, but a great value for someone just sticking their toes in the water... I'm suggesting a cornet for the mellow tone and relative ease of play. A trumpet will be more brash, and a cheap flugelhorn, well..., you don't want one. The intonation would be bad and you'd still pay more for one than you would for a better cornet or trumpet. __________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham Olde Towne Brass www.otbrass.com Brass Band of Huntsville www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

03-20-2008, 01:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
Toobz Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prescott Valley , AZ Posts: 607	Re: Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel? I also recommend an Olds Ambassador. I have the trumpet and favor it over the Yamaha's (23 series) I have had . If you're looking for a Shepard's crook cornet for cheap. You can find a Bach CR 310 (Not the CR 300) for less than $200.00 on Ebay, sometimes less than $150.00. ( I got mine for $130.00 plus shipping ) Mine plays real well and is a much better horn than the Yamaha cornet I used to own. However, for the most bang for the buck, an Olds Ambassador Cornet will be near impossible to beat for the price. __________________ Conn 10B New Era trumpet Martin Committee cornet And lots of other old and smelly stuff !

03-20-2008, 01:45 PM	#7 (permalink)
Happy Canuck Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 174	Re: Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel? To Bluespiderweb, I'd agree with an Olds cornet, good horns and at the low end of the family really great prices (except for the refurbed Ambassador on eBay right now for $500+!!) And to Trumpetnick, in my eBay watching I've seen about 6 Ambassador A6S cornets, the Shepherds Crook one. And I won 2 of them! If you are interested PM me and I'll get pictures and prices. They really are great horns! There was/is one posted on the TH Marketplace by Laurie in Aus, but he has also posted that he is ill and not able to focus on selling right now. Dale, there was a person selling an A6S and she didn't know that it was a pro horn. She had called the 'new Olds' and they said that the Ambassador was a student horn. It took a while for me to convince her that they were pro horns, she changed her auction and sold it for a good price. I did see a brass version of one on eBay once as a Reynolds horn, must have been a prototype that they never introduced. First one, Gold Plated Second, Silver __________________ Bill Olds Ambassador, Special, Super, Recording, Mendez Bb trumpets, Custom C trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M Olds Opera & Ambassador A6 Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B Olds L-12 Flugelhorn/GR Butcher 65.6FL Schilke MII Trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M If you have an Olds, go to http://www.theoldsregister.com/ and add data Last edited by Happy Canuck; 03-20-2008 at 02:09 PM.

03-20-2008, 01:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dale Proctor Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 704	Re: Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel? Hi Bill - I would really like to have found one of those when I was looking for a shepherds crook cornet years ago. I even had my '49 Ambassador bell reshaped to that style. It was still no A6, though. I eventually sold the Olds and bought a Bach 184, and am happy with it. __________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham Olde Towne Brass www.otbrass.com Brass Band of Huntsville www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

03-20-2008, 02:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,394	Re: Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel? BSW, there is a lot of great advice here, but I would like to disagree with you a bit. I don't think that you should play just for yourself(and your neighbors). I think you should find a wind band locally where you can share your accomplishments. Brass instruments are really social institutions! good luck! __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

03-20-2008, 03:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
godchaser Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 545	Re: Which: trumpet, cornet or flugel? . 'I live in an apartment with thin walls..' Hey Barry. I had to give up the horn as a kid, for the same reason. Course if you'll have a room set aside for music, and the Mrs. doesn't mind- you might could soundproof it. If so, i'd say the Trumpet, no question! -But it sounds like you might well appreciate a Cornet more than anything? 'As I'm getting older (54) and creaky, I find that I don't have as much energy to put into my playing..' No reason in today's world, you should feel like that Barry. You didn't ask, but you get with an MD that knows what the heck's going on, and you'll be on top of the world for a few bucks a month. There's a directory prompt at the top of the page here: WorldHealth.net - Anti-Aging and Longevity -that will locate sombody convenient. Shoot, a generic supplement regime likely wouldn't be much more than a little DHEA- some Resveratrol; CoEnzyme Q-10, and a high potency Multi-vita/mineral/nutrient. -This, or something along that line; along with some twenty-minute daily walks/exercise, good eats and plenty of water... ...Pleeeeze -you'll be smokin' the young bucks at the gig, just for kicks and giggles. HAAAA- :) Enjoy. Course the Doc will obviously keep you dialed in with whatever your blood work, and proper levels call for, given your interested. Apologies for speaking off topic. If you happen to decide on the Trumpet; i've seen folks braggin' on Eastman Winds -Just saw another post about their equipment the other day. Apparently a lot of Players are real impressed with their "Pro" Playability and Quality, despite being real inexpensive. Think i read $400.00 NEW, for the 420G model? Chris - Last edited by godchaser; 03-20-2008 at 04:01 PM.

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