rowuk

Hi
We have a lot of discussion on the various instruments out there, some good, some very controversial. I would like this thread to document the horns that you have really played. I would like this thread NOT to try to compare Bachs and Monettes, Taylors and Schilke, Getzen and Eclipse or whatever. A description of the blowing qualities (free blowing, very free, some resistance, uneven), your perception of the sound(very bright, bright, medium, dark, very dark), evenness of sound and then other features. For example:

Bach 180 72*ML I played this horn for 12 years. It was medium free blowing and had a bright sound that was directional in the high register. Easy high register. It worked very well in the studio, printing well to tape. It is silver plate. The quality of workmanship was medium, the silver plate wore off in the valve area within 3 years. This was a very good big band ax. Intonation was good. Needed an overhaul(valves/slides) about every 5-6 years. Being light weight, it was not the optimum orchestral horn.

I will not describe the rest of my horns in this first post. There are critical readers out there that could view this as advertising my beliefs at the top of a thread.

Please do not get into a description "better than brand x". If you had constant sticky valves, that is worth mentioning (Yamalloy from the 70's for instance). If a horn was total trash, don't assume that all of that brand are the same - recommend playing several before laying out cash. MOST IMPORTANT: let us know how the horn inspires your playing!
Thanks for the consideration!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Liad Bar-EL

I guess that I will start this thread out on a subject of which anyone can add to or take away from and of which whatever model of trumpet they would like to discuss will be completely different than I am about to say.

The kind of trumpet design with I tend to favor and I will not mention names like Taylor as you suggested for this trumpet design has unusual specs than any other trumpet that I know of. It has a rapid expansion of bore resulting in bell opening of 4 inches with no flair. I have seen this no flair bell opening on the 6-8 inch Juniper pocket trumpet; however, this is not a pocket trumpet. It's a natural trumpet but more natural in design than any other trumpet made. It's a Shofar.

Talk about thick walls............4mm! What sound!!

Liad Bar-EL

trumpetnick

Rowuk,

Though this seems like an interesting topic, I cannot figure out what is its real purpose. You know - what works for me won't necessarily work for someone else...When choosing my trumpet few years ago I tried quite a few brands and model (at the Spada music shop at Burgdorf, Switzerland). I bought my C trumpet about 7 years ago and my B flat about 5 years ago. The only make I could not try was Monnette, because there was only Monnette mouthpieces available at that time. Anyway, I would not be able to afford one of these...When I steped first at the shop I intended to buy a "normal" bach horn. But after trying few spada customized bach horns I changed quickly my mind...I was looking for orchestral horns and the sound was so solid (I mean big) and the blowing feel was so free than I could not resist the temptation...Well, there is one problem - the amount of air required is quite a lot compared to conventional trumpets...whatever they are...bach, yamaha etc. Both horns are extralarge bells and backbores...Big is beautiful...that is what someone said, right? I suppose that the feel of the Monnette should be somehow similar. Dark sound, not much resistance, good intonation, big sound, needs a lot of air...Once a tried few Taylors at the Dawsons shop in Manchester. I liked very much one heavy, large bell C horn but one think put me off : All the range was OK to me except 1 single note : G bellow the staff which sounded quite weak compared to al other notes of the horn! I cannot explain that, so if anyone can please tell me the reason!

To continue my comments on Spada, couple of years ago the built an amazing pic...I tried on of the first while trying many other pics and liked it very much...the intonation was very good, resistance was not much, and the sound...well, this was quite good too...it was quite big for a pic but in the same time bright too...the blowing feel was similar to the french bessons pic which I like very much...but spada made an interesting an useful addition....3 slide trigger...as my top f is usually sharp I could correct it with the trigger instead of doing this correction with lips which can be quite exausting for long recitals or concerts...

__________________
Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

rowuk

My idea ist that everybody tells us about THEIR horns. No criticism. I think this will help anybody looking for first hand information without second hand debate.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Dale Proctor

I'll list 3 of mine:

First, my newest find, a 1960 Conn 6B Victor trumpet. I've played it about 5 months now. Coprion leadpipe, nickel valve section, small .433 bore, large brass bell - over 5" flare diameter, lacquered finish. A very easy playing trumpet, sweet or dark when played at low to moderate volume levels, will peel paint at higher volume. A little stuffy in the high register and is very mouthpiece-specific (seems to play much better with a period Conn mouthpiece). A good jazz, big-band/pops trumpet.

Next, my 1977 Bach Strad 43 ML, silver plated. I've played it about 20 years. Very even intonation, slots well, free blowing, can be a little bright if needed, but generally has a nice smooth, rich tone with a 3C mouthpiece. Easy high register. A very nice quintet, orchestral, and big band trumpet. Can't really say anything bad about it - it's as good as the '55 Mt. Vernon Strad 43 I used to have.

Finally, my 1994 Bach Strad 184G L cornet. I've played it about 3 years now. Gold brass shepherds crook bell, lacquered finish. The best horn I've ever owned, after finding the proper mouthpiece for it (Bach 6, with 24 backbore). Easy, free blowing, fantastic slotting and intonation, plays well at ppp thru fff. Has the classic "cornet sound" and ease of technical playing, but the high register requires a little more effort than I'm used to. A great brass band, concert band, church orchestra, and solo instrument.

These are my favorites of the 11 or so horns I presently own. I've also owned some not-so-good horns, but I don't generally keep them around very long!

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

ilikethetrumpet

[Finally, my 1994 Bach Strad 184G L cornet. I've played it about 3 years now. Gold brass shepherds crook bell, lacquered finish. The best horn I've ever owned, after finding the proper mouthpiece for it (Bach 6, with 24 backbore). Easy, free blowing, fantastic slotting and intonation, plays well at ppp thru fff. Has the classic "cornet sound" and ease of technical playing, but the high register requires a little more effort than I'm used to. A great brass band, concert band, church orchestra, and solo instrument.]

I use and love an extra-large bore 184 and if memory serves me, and I actually think mine is a 1994 (or '95, like the post above), and aside from the uncommonly sharp first space E, it has a quite unique sound. I second the motion about the versatility--with a Wick 2B, I might as well be playing flugel, but it still has a recognizable Bach core underneath the richness. With a 1 1/2 C, it responds to ppp, and--when I'm playing with that other brass band (the New Orleans style one)--it can really take a lot of volume. Last year, I had some chop busters on my recital program, and I wanted to do something that would take little physical exertion but would require alot of mental/musical thought, so I performed the entire Bach solo vocal cantata 82 (ich habe genung, for bass or mezzo originally). It's a twenty minute work, and the bulk of it is this long lullaby where the sound keeps dying into silence. It's quite romantic and poignant and sensitive. Anyway, there were times I was playing so soft that the strings had to go one to a part and back off even then. The "ho" warm air wafting through the embrochure into the mouthpiece was enough to create a sound stable enough to sustain a fairly fast vibrato without cracking (except from the nerves). It responds gently to warm air and roughly to cool air--but tension in the body is tension in the sound, I spose.

I love playing French rep with it. I have a very "live" Schilke C trumpet, and this very dark cornet, and it's funny how each has a totally opposite character from the other yet both seem just right for Bozza, Dukas, Ravel Habanera, etc. I can't put my finger on it, but there is alot of character to the 184 sound, and sometimes it doesn't "blend in" as well playing in brass band as Getzens or Yamahas, but that's not for brightness sake. More likely it's my inexperience with brass band sound production. I can't quite intellectualize about its sound, but it was my first professional caliber horn, and it really influenced my trumpet sound. I still have a problem being too dark on my standard Bach 37. The brilliance just feels funny to me, and when i want more core on the Bb tpt. I tend to overdo it. I got a good 37, though, great intonation (it's from '97, I think, and I had it play-tested by a pro I trusted who lives by Elkhart) and I won't complain.

I delivered papers after school for two years to buy my cornet. My dad was (and is) a brass-bander and encouraged me to learn how to really play the cornet as an instrument before ruining it all with that bright, sharp trumpet! Nowadays I go out of my way to find opportunities to play it, at jam sessions, quintets, when playing solo cornet in bands, other chamber music, because I really really love this horn.

One other nice thing about it: the bell is so close to the ear, that you feel like you're playing so loudly relative to the trumpet or a longer cornet, whose bell is--naturally--further away from the ear. Couple that with gentle response, and it tricks you into remarkably soft (even too soft, sometimes) playing.

I love this horn. Before I got it, though, the old retired band director in town let me borrow his ratty old cornet for band. I always felt kind of silly carting it this way and that even though my dad told me I should be proud of it. I didn't realize it at the time, and I didn't play well enough to appreciate it (I was 12 or 13), but I was playing on a beautiful, vintage raw brass Mt. Vernon Bach cornet. I think that an older friend of mine inherited it (as part of the "band family" that every town has) but I wish I had a time machine so I could play that thing again. Whoa, this is a long post! I'm 23 years old, I live in a Big Ten college town, and here I am inside late on a Friday night going on and on about a cornet.

ldwoods

I had a wonderful Wild Thing and in a fit of stupidity sold it. It was the 8th WT sold by Flip, minor differences to the standard model available now. Silver finish, great quality.
Positives -
a) unmatched, unique, spine tingling tone
b) ease of response, agility
c) last but not least, it gave me a sense of confidence. Things just felt better, I had much better mental vibes while playing that horn.
Negatives -
a) if playing quietly, intonation would suffer. That may be due to my lack of proper support when playing softly. The low E was especially sharp when I was playing soft. I learned to lip and or just play it with the 3rd valve instead of 1 & 2.
b) this horn was easy to overpower small groups, kind of like running an errand to the corner store with 750hp super charged nitro funny car. Pretty fun, but not really very practical...
c) the 3rd valve slide, while not bad, felt just a tad bit draggy, not as smooth as some other top notch horns I've owned.

Another horn I really liked and regret selling is a Bach ML 72* with 43 leadpipe. By memory, the SN would have placed its manufacture around the late 1990s. It was in like new condition, very low miles. It was versatile, easy to play soft and blend and could also soar and sing when necessary. It felt just a tad too stuffy. I would love to try another one and see if I could find one that had just a little less resistance.

I just ordered a used Bach ML 72 sterling bell, 43 reverse leadpipe horn that I am very anxious to see how it plays.

__________________
Larry Woods

trumpetnick

Ld,

What is a reverse leadpipe? Playing ona 72 with extra large leadpipe (2L) I would be interested what is this...probably it is just a failure of mu English...Please try to explain it to me.

__________________
Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

dcstep

I'll talk about my Selmer Paris Concept TT first and add others as the thread develops. The TT is free blowing, but not quite so much so as the Wild Thing. It doesn't really require a big adjustment to play compared to a ml trumpet. The tone is dark and broad and it records well. Dynamics are very easy with the TT, so I end up using it most often for funk/rock/soul and big band.

The build quality is exceptional with incredible valves and lacquer still 100% after 3-years (I only play about 8-hours per week).

The weakness is its dark tone. It's ok for section playing because it's not extremely dark; however, in quintet or trumpet ensembler where you trade licks with other trumpets, then its dark character is very obvious. I'd use it for almost everything were it not for that character. Instead, I use my #20 K-Modified when I need a more brilliant "classic" tone.

Dave

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Schilke '60 B1
Selmer Paris -- '57 #20 K-Modified/
'03 Concept TT w/ GR66.8B2.8
'94 Lawler TL cornet w/ Sparx 2B
Conn Vintage One flugel - GR66FD
www.pitpops.com www.ucm-inc.com
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

djm6701

Kanstul Wayne Bergeron 1600 model.

This is my main horn. I play essentially all big band music and this horn I would reserve for commercial situations. It has a big 72 bell on it and Kanstul's version of the 25-0 leadpipe. It plays very evenly throughout all registers and has a dark core but overall is a bright horn with a big, somewhat diffuse sound. I've recorded with it and it has a large amount of core from the front and sits nicely on top of the band when in the lead chair. There is very good feedback to the player. I use a heavy valve cap on the third valve to tighten up the slotting a bit. The valves are excellent. I had the 1st and 3rd slides adjusted when I got it as they were slightly out of alignment but now everything is perfect. The bell is so big that mutes with worn corks will not fit so I had to buy new ones. It also is extremely thin and dents very easily. I like the large flat finger buttons as well. Overall this is the least physically demanding horn I have ever played. It's really open, which I like, although it makes all my other ML bores feel like soda straws when I switch around.

Olds Recording

Best looking instrument around. This is a heavy weight horn with a tightly flared rose brass bell that produces a huge sound with very strong forward projection. It's usable in any situation although due to the excellent condition of this particular one (it sat unused in a closet for 50 years) I am somewhat selective about where I haul it out. Intonation and scale are very even although when playing one has to remember that it's built with 'old style' compromises (the first valve slide is much longer and A and E are in tune as opposed to newer horns where they are sharp - that means that the third slide is a bit shorter and makes Ab Eb out a bit, etc.). I had the gap adjusted to modern standards as the Olds gap was very large. It's a balanced horn with the valves located in the centre of the instrument and the middle valve is offset for comfort for the longer middle finger. The balanced valve cluster means that the player doesn't notice the weight of mutes much if at all. The valves are made of nickel and are definitely in the superior range - they are the lightest quickest valves imaginable. It has an interesting combination of very secure attacks and slippery slots. Easy-to-use third valve trigger.

LA-era Benge 3x

Another Ebay purchase for me. This one is very light (lighter than other 3x's I've played) and is a very easy player with it's own distinct sound and lots of core and high harmonics. A very good horn for lead. Excellent nickel-plated valves. I find the valve cluster a little close to the mouthpiece when I first pick it up but that goes away later. Well-manufactured - everything fits as it should. Medium slotting, plays quite open. A keeper and I got it for $500 with new silver plating on it.

Bach strad 37-180

My first pro horn. Reliable, fast valves that have never stuck although they are a bit clunky. Typical Bach sound with diffuse mid-range harmonics. Plays medium-open in the low and middle registers and somewhat tight up above high C. Nice horn. I used it for a couple of legit gigs this summer as it fit best sound-wise. I might put a new leadpipe on it sometime to try and open it up.

I have a whole whack of others but that's all for now.

__________________
Dave M.
Richmond Hill (Toronto), Ontario, CANADA

Kanstul WB1600
1952 L.A. Olds Recording, 1975 L.A. Benge 3x, Yamaha 631 Flugel, Olds Flugel

GR 65.6 Mouthpieces