Vienna key

tpter1 · 11-01-2006, 06:14 AM

I was just doing some browsing around, and came across Ricco Kuhn (sp?) trumpets. They list a Vienna key on their rotary trumpets as an option.

What is that and what is its benefit? Who here uses a Vienna key?

Just curious.

trumpetnick · 11-01-2006, 09:26 AM

I am not really sure, but probably the Vienna key refers to the water keys used play easier some high notes like the top C. Probably rowuk can tell better than me.

rowuk · 11-01-2006, 10:38 AM

Trumpetnick got it exactly right. It is a vent (hole) to make the high C very secure. Thein trumpets can be ordered with multiple vents for A, B and C. It looks like a water key, but it is on top of the tuning slide on a rotary trumpet. It is similar in function to the octave key on a flute or saxophone. I have researched this and understand the functionality, but have not been able to find out who made this first and why. Good rotary trumpets are as easy to play upstairs as the piston valved counterparts. This "invention" does reduce the scare on Also sprach Zarathustra though.

trumpetnick · 11-01-2006, 12:45 PM

Rowuk,

On some rotary (like the europian model of schagerl) there is 2 water keys. Do you use the second one for anything else then taking out the water? I did not mean the one on the tuning slide but the second one.

rowuk · 11-01-2006, 05:47 PM

Hi Nick,
I'm not sure what you mean. I went to the Schagerl web site and looked at their horns again. I couldn't find a picture of a horn with a second water key. The pro models have two keys (that look like water keys but aren't) on top of the tuning slide that are only for placing high notes and the only water key is the one on the side of the horn.
The second trumpet player in a brass quintet that I play in has a Schagerl(I believe a D1). This is one very nice sounding horn. It is in tune, the valves are very fast and the workmanship is top notch. They have a manufacturing specialty- the slides on the valves are made from single pieces of tubing-no solder joints. Also the tubes joining the valves are seemless. They have switchable leadpipes so you can really fine-tune the horn.
Rotary valves are just so precise. For german Romantic music I won't play anything else (unless I have to).

trumpetnick · 11-02-2006, 07:00 AM

Probably this pic would clarify my question. The trumpert on the pic have to vent holes operated buy keys and one water key...any idea how exactly do you use the second one?

TheRiddler · 11-02-2006, 10:38 AM

One vent hole would be used for one note and the other vent hole for the other another note ... if thats a picc... im not sure which notes they would be used for. However, due to the physics, each note has a sweet spot where the vent hole should be drilled for it to function properly and sound correct.

These things are a headache, when I was studying on Rotary, the horn i borrowed had 3 of these things... but they make things speak so easily, so its totally worth the hassle to learn to use em.

rowuk · 11-02-2006, 06:46 PM

Hi Nick,
the horn in your picture is a Bb instrument with the key nearest the bell for high C (concert Bb) and the other one for high D (concert C). You just point your chops at a high note, push down the appropriate key and Voila - instant high C or D, even at pianissimo! These things sure make Richard Strauss easier!

trumpetnick · 11-03-2006, 02:13 AM

I believe that with a bit of practice I can miss these notes even with the vent holes

trumpetmike · 11-03-2006, 03:04 AM

There isn't a note out there that I can't split

You just need the right attitude

11-01-2006, 06:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
tpter1 Forte User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern New York Posts: 2,309	Vienna key I was just doing some browsing around, and came across Ricco Kuhn (sp?) trumpets. They list a Vienna key on their rotary trumpets as an option. What is that and what is its benefit? Who here uses a Vienna key? Just curious. __________________ -Glenn "Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

11-01-2006, 09:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
trumpetnick Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Posts: 1,056	I am not really sure, but probably the Vienna key refers to the water keys used play easier some high notes like the top C. Probably rowuk can tell better than me. __________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

11-01-2006, 10:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,367	Trumpetnick got it exactly right. It is a vent (hole) to make the high C very secure. Thein trumpets can be ordered with multiple vents for A, B and C. It looks like a water key, but it is on top of the tuning slide on a rotary trumpet. It is similar in function to the octave key on a flute or saxophone. I have researched this and understand the functionality, but have not been able to find out who made this first and why. Good rotary trumpets are as easy to play upstairs as the piston valved counterparts. This "invention" does reduce the scare on Also sprach Zarathustra though. __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-01-2006, 12:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
trumpetnick Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Posts: 1,056	Rowuk, On some rotary (like the europian model of schagerl) there is 2 water keys. Do you use the second one for anything else then taking out the water? I did not mean the one on the tuning slide but the second one. __________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

11-01-2006, 05:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,367	Hi Nick, I'm not sure what you mean. I went to the Schagerl web site and looked at their horns again. I couldn't find a picture of a horn with a second water key. The pro models have two keys (that look like water keys but aren't) on top of the tuning slide that are only for placing high notes and the only water key is the one on the side of the horn. The second trumpet player in a brass quintet that I play in has a Schagerl(I believe a D1). This is one very nice sounding horn. It is in tune, the valves are very fast and the workmanship is top notch. They have a manufacturing specialty- the slides on the valves are made from single pieces of tubing-no solder joints. Also the tubes joining the valves are seemless. They have switchable leadpipes so you can really fine-tune the horn. Rotary valves are just so precise. For german Romantic music I won't play anything else (unless I have to). __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-02-2006, 10:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
TheRiddler Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Posts: 127	One vent hole would be used for one note and the other vent hole for the other another note ... if thats a picc... im not sure which notes they would be used for. However, due to the physics, each note has a sweet spot where the vent hole should be drilled for it to function properly and sound correct. These things are a headache, when I was studying on Rotary, the horn i borrowed had 3 of these things... but they make things speak so easily, so its totally worth the hassle to learn to use em. Last edited by TheRiddler; 11-02-2006 at 10:41 AM. Reason: whoops.

11-02-2006, 06:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,367	Hi Nick, the horn in your picture is a Bb instrument with the key nearest the bell for high C (concert Bb) and the other one for high D (concert C). You just point your chops at a high note, push down the appropriate key and Voila - instant high C or D, even at pianissimo! These things sure make Richard Strauss easier! __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-03-2006, 02:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
trumpetnick Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Posts: 1,056	I believe that with a bit of practice I can miss these notes even with the vent holes __________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

11-03-2006, 03:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
trumpetmike Forte User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Farnham (a place too smal Posts: 1,202	There isn't a note out there that I can't split You just need the right attitude

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