65Strad

I am considering a piccolo trumpet purchase soon. I may keep it for ever, or depending how much I wind up using or not using it, I may eventually sell it,not sure.

I question the wisdom of buying this horn when they are out of production and have no discernable recognition in the trumpet "marketplace" if selling it were to be the thing to do.
The Bach horn plays nice but it doesn't have the rep of being the "world standard" of picc's that the P5-4 obviously does.

1. Have any of you played one of the Bach VBS 196's, a Stomvi, Cambrass and Bob Reeves collaboration, and Schilke P5-4's? If so, your feedback would be great to get regarding playability etc. since the Bach has the Reeves alignment out of the box.

Point 2 the Bach is "new" but has been demo'ed and is two years old but is being treated as "new". Considering that the resale in the long run could be somewhat disasterous from lack of awareness in the market, would the Schilke be "the only logical right choice of THESE TWO?"

Odd question to many I'm sure, but I'm looking for some advise. I wouldn't buy it to sell it, but when and if I were, then resale does play a legitmate factor.

What would you do? Thanks!
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Jimi Michiel

65Strad-

You're right that the Schilke P5-4, for better or worse, is the standard. It will have the best resale value of any piccolo, assuming you take care of it.

I bought my P5-4 on eBay in 2001, used for about $2200. It was in perfect condition. I had never really played a piccolo before, but knew that I would need one for college. On the one hand, it was great to have a P5-4 from day one. I had a strong embouchure and it was great to begin with an instrument that was well built, had consistent valves and a nice tone. On the other hand... I've played a lot of other P5-4s that have played better than mine. Some have better response, others are easier to play in tune. I've had my horn for long enough that I know how to adjust and get the sound/response/intonation that I want, so it's not a huge deal. If I had to do it all over again, I would play every horn I could. The bottom line: Schilke's can be great horns, but play as many as you can because they're not as consistent as you might think.

As for the Bach... I have a very strong bias against Bach. I haven't played the new piccolos, but I have a hard time trusting any company that raises their prices so much without an ounce of R&D/product improvement. Not to mention their labor situation.

Stomvi's are great horns. I've played a couple of their piccolos and my impression was that they were a little darker than Schilkes. They've still got that "ring," but the lower overtones were a little more prominent than in the P5-4. If you can, check out the Scherzer rotary piccs. They're a lot of fun to play and I think would work better in chamber music situations. I've found them easier to play at lower volumes than the Schilke (and other Schilke style piccs).

Just my .02 Bottom line: buy what you enjoy playing the most.

-Jimi

tatakata

the bach is made by stomvi

Pedal C

From my experiance, those are two pretty different horns. If you can find a way to try both, that would be best. The Bach seems (to me, at least) to feel kind of "big," more like a larger horn (it takes a trumpet mouthpiece too). I've heard the Reeves folks say that it works well for people who mainly play Bb and fairly little pic. The Schilke has a more compact feel (and a cornet shank). Anyway, those are just my impressions. I've always been happy with my Schilke (although I actually prefer the Scherzer rotary, but I'd never heard of it when I got my pic).

I don't think Bach has much to do with the 196 pic. I think they just made a deal with the real manufacturers to put the Bach name on it.

I have no idea about the resale of the Bach. The Schilkes, in good shape, resell pretty well.

Jason.

rowuk

I cannot answer this question in good faith.
I have played both (one Bach, many Schilkes) and can honestly say that the Schilkes all played well/in tune and were way too bright for me. The one Bach was at the Frankfurt music fair (arguably the largest in the world) and was a very big disappointment. Not in tune with a Bach or Monette mouthpiece, the rest does not even count. I simply rule out out of tune horns in the 21st century.

I have played several nice Yamaha, Stomvi, Kanstul, Getzen, Scherzer and Selmers.
In any case, you MUST play before you pay and I recommend taking an experienced picc player with you as a second set of ears. Play for each other and take written notes. Sleep over your decision and then lay the cash down. Do not accept a horn with bad intonation. There are too many good ones to be had these days!

Vulgano Brother

I have one friend who really loves his Bach, coming to it by way of Kanstul and Selmer. I know lots of people happy with their P5-4 (or three valve with extra rotary on third), plenty that are happy with their Stomvis and some who love their Kanstuls. Most of these are players who started out on Selmer. Based on statistics, the P5-4 would seem the best choice, but statistics lie--best of all is to try yourself and decide for yourself. Have fun!

stchasking

You haven't mentioned playing the Yamaha YTR9830.
You may find it affordable compared to the Schilke.

patdublc

I tried a couple of the new Bachs and didn't care for them at all. I've had a Schilke P5-4 for over 20 years and still like it. It can be fairly bright, so given the chance, I would like to have a Scherzer rotary to round out the mix. I also really like the Schilke P7-4 which is completely different from the P5-4.

IMHO, the Getzen Eterna 940s, which now comes stock from the factory with Blackburn leadpipes, is a very good bargain.

tatakata

the getzen with the blackburn pipes would be an excellent choice.

Sterling

The Getzen with Blackburn pipes is a fine choice. The Schilke P5-4 with Blackburn pipes is a very nice horn. I find it a very comfortable all around piccolo. It plays well in tune with itself (A is better third valve rather than 1 and 2) and with others. The Schertzer rotary has a richer sound and blends better with vocal soloists. Another point to think about with piccolo trumpets. Long bell or short model? Each have their own camps.