trumpetlearner

Hi, first post here!

I will be looking at both of these trumpets tomorrow, and was hoping to get a little guidance. Both are $175; however, the yamaha is slightly used (though in apparently great shape) whereas the Selmer is brand new.

From what I've read, the yamaha sounds like a good starter trumpet, but I cannot find out much on the Selmer brand (there seem to be different incarnations), or the "202" series (this may be wrong). They seem to generally be good though.

So for a complete beginner, who hopes to play for some time, is it better to buy totally brand new, or used in this case?

rowuk

It is best to go with your trumpet teacher and let someone who has ears and is local help. Internet advice is pretty safe. If you mess up, it is not our problem.

Make educated decisions with YOUR research. That is a lesson for the rest of your life!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

trumpetlearner

Thanks... Not having any trumpet playing friends, or an instructor I can take with me places, the internet is my prime source of research, and I assumed by posting on a forum called "trumpetmaster", that would be a good source of info... apparently not.

mlagatic

TrumpetLearner,

I think that you have misconstrued Rowuk's advice. I give you credit for your initiative in trying to find out the information that you are looking for. You have to understand that we don't know about your situation. We don't know that you have don't have access to a trumpet teacher. I'm sure that you can use this forum to help find a trumpet player that lives near you! All you have to do is ask. Remember, we don't know your life story, we can only give advice on what you tell us.


Although internet research is reliable, nothing ever takes the place of having someone, anyone listen to you play on the horns. Even if you take a friend of yours with you and try out both horns, you can get a good feel on what you think works best for you. Being that you are a complete beginner, either horn should be ok for you until you grow out of them.

Being a Yamaha player, I know that their horns are built well and that the student horns are great horns if they are well taken care of. You will definitely get your money's worth with the Yamaha. That being said, I have seen a fair amount of kids in the schools with those Back TR200 and TR300 models that you are talking about. I haven't played them much, but they should be decent. Both will get you a good start. Best of luck in your search.

__________________
Bb: Yamaha 8335GS
C : Yamaha 8445GS

ComeBackKid

Just to expand a bit on the advise of Mlagatic, if you browse this forum (it really is "Trumpetmaster", I think you will find) there are many threads which, after many words, boil down to a conclusion that takes many people years to understand, if they ever do, and that it that the trumpet itself has only a minor effect on how you play.

Now, you may ask, then why do trumpets cost anywhere from $80 to over $8000? There must be a difference between them - right? Of course there is. The problem is that when you are beginning, you have not yet developed the tools to utilize the differences effectively. It is sort of like driving a Festiva vs a Cobra. A new driver has his hands full with either one and probably can't drive either one very well. But, of course, there is a difference between the vehicles.

So, what does this mean to you? Well, to keep it close to your original question, either trumpet that you mentioned will work fine for you. I have both and I like them both. They do play differently but I think that what Rowuk was trying to say is that you need to find out which one plays best for you.

But, as far as my personal insight goes, I think that the Yamaha is well built and sturdy. But, I think that the Selmer has more 'life' in the sound. This model of Yamaha is sort of 'blah' in that sense. As far as used vs new, if you were looking a a real vintage trumpet which was used but a well-known high-end trumpet, then I think that most members here would advise to go used. But in this particular case, they are close enough in both age and quality that it doesn't matter a lot on that point. Based on my personal experience with both my own playing and that of others I know who are starting out, if you cannot tell any difference when you play them - and it is likely that you will not be able to - then simply flip a coin. The outcome is likely to be just as good as if you agonize over it.

Good luck. Let us know what you think after you make your selection.

__________________
Come-Back Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Selmer Invicta London (T)
Olds SuperStar (T)
Olds Super (2T)
Olds Special (2T+C)
Olds Ambassador (9T+7C)
Andreas Eastman (2T)
Conn Director (T+C)
King Cleveland Superior (T+C)
Holton (T602+C605 Shep Crk)
Holton Collegiate (T+C)
Blessing (T+C)
Yamaha (T+C)
Getzen 300
Amati ATR213
(+Revelle, Bundy, Alcazar, & ?)

trumpetnick

__________________
Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C
Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C
1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
Spada Custom Piccolo

If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

ChaseFan

The Yamaha YTR 2320, a model from many years ago, has a reputation as a decent trumpet for beginners.
I once tried one and it played OK from Low F# to 3 octaves higher.
More recent variations of that model, such as the Yamaha YTR-2335, cost several hundred dollars new.

On the other hand, any trumpet of any brand that only costs $175 new is not worth even looking at.

Make sure the Yamaha's valves move up and down OK without sticking, that the slides all move OK, that the spit valves seal well, that there are no signs of damage or repair.
$175 is a bit high for such an old model, maybe 20 years old, so you might try to talk the seller down on the price.

Dean

Bflatman

Hi,

The advice you have received really is the best.

Trumpet manufacture can be variable, when making a line of "identical" trumpets you can find one is good, the next is not so good, the next is great, the next is good again, thats why you need someone who knows trumpets with you when you buy, so they can make sure its one of the good ones, and choose the best one if you have a selection to choose from.

If you cant have someone experienced with you when you buy your in trouble.

I was in a similar position so I did some research and I heard that Yamaha dont suffer this variability as much as most other makers do, also Yamaha are good players and well thought of by tutors.

For this reason the Yamaha would make sense, plus it cost more to make when it was new, theres usually a reason for that.

But if theres something wrong with the instrument you choose, maybe something that is expensive to put right, how are you going to know, only an experienced player could tell you theres something wrong with it. You could easily buy into a load of trouble without knowing.

This is why Rowuk and the other posters said what they did, nobody here wants to see you buy into a load of trouble, and thats what makes this site so good, knowledgeable people telling you the facts, straight.

Take someone with you who plays, and be guided by them.

__________________
The only place that "Results" comes before "Work", is in the dictionary.

"I aint squealing till Ive seen my mouthpiece"

2001 Yamaha YCR2330II Cornet
1954 Conn 80A Cornet
1976 Boosey & Hawkes Regent Cornet
1916 Boosey & Co A/Bb Silbron Class A Trumpet
1930's Monarch A/Bb Trumpet
1950's Comet unknown European Trumpet

Boosey 8A Trumpet mpc
Yamaha 11B4 Trumpet mpc
Yamaha 11F4 Cornet mpc
Denis Wick 4B Cornet mpc
Conn 4 Cornet mpc

trumpetlearner

Thank you all for your replies! All were helpful...

Ultimately, it sounds like my best bet would be to have someone come with me, but again, I'm not really in a position to do that... the seller is out of town and realistically, I don't know how many teachers I could ask to come with me on a trumpet buying trek.

I also get the impression that at this price range, there is not too much variability, though I have heard some good thoughts on the price vs. quality comparison. It would make sense that if an instrument costs more to make in the first place, it is probably better quality, but of course usage could detract from that.

My final thought was that, given I alone would not know how to discern them properly, my best bet would be to let the seller play them (which is maybe like letting a car salesman take you for a test drive!), but at least that way, I could hear them played by a real player.

EDIT: the Selmer is actually a Roy Benson 202, which I guess is made in the selmer factory.

ComeBackKid

OK, if the seller is out of town, that buys a bit more time to assess your situation. So, some additional questions that come up are:
(1) Are you in school - that is, are you going to be playing in a school band or music class?
(2) If you don't have any trumpet-playing friends or an instructor, what will be your primary means of learning the basics of embouchure (mouth/lips/tongue/airflow) and fingering?
(3) Are you under a deadline to make a choice or do you have more time to gain a bit more education?
(4) Are the two choices that you mentioned in your first post the only ones that are within your budget?
(5) Are these at a store or from a private party? (The seller being out-of-town makes it sound like a private party but then why is he selling a brand-new trumpet?)

In your case, I did an internet search on Roy Benson trumpets. It was difficult to find anything other than sales sites. It appears that the story that they are made in the Selmer factory is widespread but I could find no confirmation of that fact. But, even if they are, that does not mean that they are a high-quality instrument. Many factories provide outsourced manufacturing for other brands but they just meet the buyer's specifications which may not be high. The few comments that I could find about Roy Benson indicate that they are typical student-grade trumpets - not particularly great. The Roy Benson website actually does not even provide any information on the trumpets.

So, if you are not in a big hurry, I would suggest that you look around and find out a bit more about your available options. Now that I know a bit more about the (lack of) information about Roy Benson instruments, it seems like the Yamaha might be a safer bet. But, as I mentioned before, I have the same Yamaha model and while it is very well-made, I do not find the sound particularly inspiring. There are many other great trumpets that can be purchased used for about the same price but without someone to guide you, anything that you buy is going to be a bit of a crapshoot.

So, give us a bit more background (based on the questions above) and lets see if there is some more direction that can come from members here.

__________________
Come-Back Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Selmer Invicta London (T)
Olds SuperStar (T)
Olds Super (2T)
Olds Special (2T+C)
Olds Ambassador (9T+7C)
Andreas Eastman (2T)
Conn Director (T+C)
King Cleveland Superior (T+C)
Holton (T602+C605 Shep Crk)
Holton Collegiate (T+C)
Blessing (T+C)
Yamaha (T+C)
Getzen 300
Amati ATR213
(+Revelle, Bundy, Alcazar, & ?)