jazzman54

I found this message on the th site...... I hope flip doesnt mind that I post it here. It looks like the secret is OUT



Hello Everyone,

Yes, I played it up at Kanstul's on 10/15/2003 Zig ask me to play test it, when I was up there getting some of my horns..... It was serial # 29311 and it was Raw Brass. And as Zig told me, you might as well play it as your customers will be asking you what's the difference between it and Your horn the Wild Thing.

I'm not going to A-B it to the WT, I'm only reporting as to what I found it to be, as it's now Nov. 14th I have now been asked by many, if I knew anything as to what it is..... And now someone here on the TH has asked.

It's a .470 bore, with over / under tuning slide, ( or inner / outer ) with 1 amado water key on the main tuning slide. It's all brass, no nickel anywhere, the actual bell is a bell that used for another horn, yes I know what, but I'm not saying, the only difference is he's made the bell flare 5 1/4" rather then 4 7/8". It's the same valve block used on the other Zeus only it's balled out to .470, the bracing, and hardware, is like the other Zeus. The thumb ring on the 1st. valve slide is like the one on the 3rd. slide, it's a bit small, so my thumb won't go through it. It has no 3rd slide stop, or water key. My concern would be, when the slides break in, there is nothing stopping it from hitting the floor. It's a very bright sound. I personally didn't care for the low, or middle registers, as to feel or sound. However it did play in the upper range at least to a "A" over high "C" as that's my range. I thought it played best with a shallow mpc. IMO the deeper mpc. cups, didn't play very well, and was stuffy in the middle register.

I was happy to see that it is much different then my WT.

All The Best,

Flip Oakes

Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
COME AND HEAR THE DIFFERENCE
http://www.flipoakes.com

"To read what Wild Thing owners say about their horns, click on this"
http://www.flipoakes.com/testimonials.htm

Flip Oakes
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056
760-643-1501
760-643-1511 FAX

To Hear the Flip Oakes Wild Thing Trumpet go to
http://www.flipoakes.com/multimedia.htm

jazzman54

Jack Kanstul. are you out there? If you have the time I would like to know how your company works with other people to design and make horns. Do they give you all the specs and you do whatever they want. Do you offer guidence or suggestions? If I erver wanted to build a horn how does the process work. Who do I contact. How much would it cost?



Im thinking about a SupeR JazzMaN

jamesfrmphilly

Flip played a prototype.
we should wait until the actual production horn is released to the public.
you can't review a prototype.

Thevor

Let's pretend for a moment,

I wonder what would have happened if Alex had been visiting the Kanstul factory and was allowed to see a "secret" super horn that Zig had been putting together for Flip. (this is speculation only)

The new "Flip Thing" was due to have it's public disclosure but Alex had the opportunity to give a little "hint" about the next great horn.

Regardless of whether people are loyal to TH or TM, if Alex had done this to Flip, people would have been incensed. The anger would be resounding.

Yet it wasn't Alex who did this, the roles were reversed. Why is Flip getting a pass on something that in the very least is inappropriate and in my opinion reprehensible? Alex would have never been allowed to get away with this, why should anyone else get a pass? because Flip is a nice guy, so what, Alex's history doesn't justify this kind of behavior.

Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this?

Thevor

Reverend

Thevor,

From what I'm hearing, I think a lot of individuals share your same concern.

However, as was stated, this is a prototype model, which is being evaluated, and may be modified, perhaps greatly, dependent on the private reviews. At the same time, it may remain relatively unchanged, as those who test it may find it great just the way it is!

We'll know soon enough!

Blessings,

Hornucopia

T,

Interesting points, certainly worth pondering ... hard to tell if something wrong has happened without knowing the details of the confidentiality arrangements between the players.

Also interesting that AleX hasn't had a comment about this. Hard to believe he doesn't know the posts are up both here and "over there." Were I him, I'd be checking every trumpet site for ZeuS news on a regular basis.

Of course AleX is so shy that if he thought he hadn't been treated well or fairly, he might not say anything ... yeah, RIGHT!

Might it be possible that AleX has authorized a few selected people to see the horn at the factory and offer comments, all part of the buzz machine?

Hmmmm ... maybe I'll swing by the factory and see if can get some quality time with the prototype. I'm sure that "Endorsed by Hornucopia" would be a HUGE selling point. (Flip and Leigh, if you send me your horns, I'll be glad to endorse them too, after I give them a "fair trial." :wink: :wink: )

Thevor

Rev,

I really don't care whether the horn is a prototype. In fact, I could care less about the JupiteuR, my point, regardless of Alex's history of being an ass on TH, is that there was a leak of private business information. Had Alex done something similar the roof would have been caving in on both trumpet sites. Again, why is another person getting a pass, poor judgement is still poor judgement, isn't it? My challenge is to the people who would have hammered Alex, yet they are giving another person a pass because he's their bud, that defines hypocrisy.

Thevor

Thevor

Hornu,

Apparently you had posted while I was writing mine. Interesting idea with one serious flaw.

If there was a pre-planned testing leak, then that would suggest the people involved are playing us for fools.

Tootsall

OK....Alex has at least some of his horns built to spec by Kanstul. Flip has some of HIS horns built to spec by Kanstul. Alex takes them and distributes them "as received" from a factory which we accept to make a quality product. Flip takes horns built to HIS spec and goes over them with a fine-tooth comb before distributing them.

Flip undoubtedly has a "no-expenses barred" approach to the horns HE buys. Alex undoubtedly has a "watch the cost...this is my market price range" approach.

Flip plays trumpet professionally. Alex sells trumpets professionally (and guitars and whatever else he can get contracted with his brand names stamped on them).

I know and most of you know that the vast majority of household appliances come from the same factories but have different "brands" applied to them by the actual manufacturer. The standards of quality are simply a function of whatever has been negotiated and contracted by the "brand name holder" (be it Sears, WalMart, or whatever).

I believe Jack Kanstul when he mentions in his forum that the "best" combinations are saved for themselves (K-labelled). Flip's sales are undoubtedly small enough (limited by how many horns Flip can personally hand-tweak) that he is not a threat to Kanstul's direct marketing efforts. Therefore there should be no question that there is a higher degree of inspection/quality of material/ cost of manufacture involved in the WT so it is GOING TO BE A BETTER HORN. So what?

The "what" is that a comparison between the Zeus and the WT isn't fair. The price ranges are completely different and, unless I miss my guess, the cost of getting the horn into a customer's hands are in completely different ball parks. Yet it has not been Flip who has initiated the comparison! Alex has claimed that the ZG is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the ZZ is even better and will make the other superhorn makers green with envy! So of course Flip will take the opportunity to test the competition out. Why not? He did NOT say "the WT is better than the ZZ". He did NOT say "the WT is a better value for your dollar than the ZZ". He simply said what he felt when he tried one, he acknowledge that it was a prototype, and that he was offered the opportunity to try one because he was cautioned (and I'll paraphrase here) that his customers may ask him "why should i pay so much for a WT when I can buy the Z for so much less money"?

Is that sinister? Unfair? Hey, there are a few WTs out there for folks to AB test against a ZG..unless I miss my guess it's already happened...more than once. The ZZ is a new horn but is apparently already "going the rounds" to see what "bits and pieces" might need to be selected from different barrels at the factory. (I don't mean that literally but you get the idea).

Oh...the bell size? 5-1/4" happens to be the same as the Mariachi.

Hornucopia

Not "people," necessarily. One person with good strategy could get it going with a few well-placed words and rely on human behaviour to do the rest.

And I am SO bummed, I haven't had any IM's yet offering me horns to endorse. I may have to send my avatar out to do some, er, negotiation.