'64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect?

Ursa · 02-12-2009, 01:25 AM

I just won an old Holton cornet on eBay:

HOLTON CORNET - eBay (item 180327443019 end time Feb-11-09 21:21:41 PST)

I haven't played a Holton cornet in maybe 25 years; I remember the Collegiates as being an OK horn with no glaring faults and a sweet, somewhat lively tone. What can I expect from this old beastie?

BTW, I'm starting trumpet lessons Monday...

MFfan · 02-12-2009, 08:15 AM

Probably about the same. I don't know if they changed much over the years. I used to have a 50's Collegiate cornet and it had the qualities you described and had good valve action. I traded it to an elementary school music teacher for the Getzen I have now, as the entire spectrum of the Holton sound was not as good, to me, as my other ones at the time.

Ursa · 02-12-2009, 04:29 PM

Thanks, MFfan, for the insights. I also had a Getzen cornet (a 300-series) and I'd have to say its tone was more complex and colorful than the Olds Ambassador cornet I once owned. Its tone was also more delicious than that of the Holton Collegiates and Conn Directors we had in our school band. But, my Getzen was so poorly built I wouldn't buy another one without personally inspecting it first. The Holton may be the next best thing in terms of tone...we'll see when it gets here. I can't wait to hear what she'll do.

MFfan · 02-12-2009, 05:44 PM

Let us know of your impressions. Suprised the 300 had problems. My old 80- Getzen is built like a tank and just as heavy

Looks like you got a good deal. $21.50 for a working cornet is good.
Mine cost somewhere in the $30 range if I remember correctly. I think about the only Holton I would want now is a Super.

lovevixen555 · 02-12-2009, 06:21 PM

Holton trumpets tend tohave better then industry standard valves and usualy if taken care of last a long time. The Colligate line is just as you described. If you happen to get a Super Colliagte with two piece bell jump on it. In my opinion the Super Colligates sound very much like a French made pro-model with a two piece bell. The ones with Nickle bell flairs play especialy good when you play them softly. They really shine played softly played loudly they are just ok.

Now my experince with my son's 1946 Holton Clooigate in Silver is a different story. I would put it someplace between a killer student model and a an Intermediate model of today. The further back you go with Holtons the less student like the Colligates are. In fact his student model has the same bell and bell profile and slides as some of Holtons promodels and the same valve engine. THe main difference being his does not have the reverse leadpipe or the flowers on the bell and the main slide is rouned then the pro models.

So I would imagine that your cornet will be right up their with a modern day Yamaha Student model and maybe better.

As for the Getzen 300 my Getzen 300 is from 1965 and while the valve are excellent they did go cheap on the bell and the slides. THe slides the skipped several machineing steps that would be expected on a more expensive trumpet. The bell is paper thing and really has a nasty tone to it and is kind of dead. The lacquer was cellose lacquer. Now I will say this though the leadpipe is the heaviest leadpipe I have run into I could hammer 16p nails into 2x4's with that thing!!! It also showed almost Zero sings of corrision. The brazes where also very strong. The water keys are a bit cheap looking but are still working great. Iwould not though pass judgment on a modern Getzen 300 based on my 1965 model.

You know I am not looking at buying any new Holtons unless I come across a nice Super I can pick up cheap. I will say though I have not been disapointed with any Holton I have bought. Even my Son's T602 is a solidly built and well engineered student trumpet. They have covered the basics inside and out. I have yet to run into a Holton that you could not just pick up and play. Plus they usualy can be had in fairly good shape for low $$$$ which is also good. I think Holtons are greatly underrated especialy from a student standpoint. Their older stuff is so much better in my opinion then most modern student instruments and can be had so cheaply! Holton from what I understand pioneered the reverse leadpipe.

Charlesl20 · 02-14-2009, 12:02 PM

I can't speak for the cornet version, but I have two Super Collegiate trumpets, and they are great horns in my opinion. Don't compare them to the normal Collegiates, they are an entirely different animal. Looking at the pics however, that one is a standard Collegiate which is an "OK" student horn.

Ursa · 02-14-2009, 06:26 PM

Found a Super Collegiate on eBay and bought it, too. I hope it plays as neat as it looks....

Vintage HOLTON COLLEGIATE Cornet - eBay (item 120374730454 end time Feb-14-09 15:28:25 PST)

I might have overpaid a little considering the repaired bell...it should be an interesting comparison between the Collegiate and Super Collegiate, and also to see how they stack up against my memories of my Olds Ambassador. Hope they both arrive soon!

MFfan · 02-14-2009, 09:13 PM

Looks like a decent buy. Let us know how they work out for you.

I agree with Newguy, I should have noticed it wasn't a Super right away. Both trumpet and cornet versions turn up from time to time.

Newguy · 02-14-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ursa

Found a Super Collegiate on eBay and bought it, too. I hope it plays as neat as it looks....

Vintage HOLTON COLLEGIATE Cornet - eBay (item 120374730454 end time Feb-14-09 15:28:25 PST)

I might have overpaid a little considering the repaired bell...it should be an interesting comparison between the Collegiate and Super Collegiate, and also to see how they stack up against my memories of my Olds Ambassador. Hope they both arrive soon!

I hate to tell you, but that is NOT a super. The supers will say Super on the bell. That is a collegiate tri-color. I don't see where the seller even calls it a super in the description. Sorry.

Ursa · 02-15-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

I hate to tell you, but that is NOT a super. The supers will say Super on the bell. That is a collegiate tri-color. I don't see where the seller even calls it a super in the description. Sorry.

Thanks, Newguy, for setting me straight on this. I saw other tri-color horns with a prominent "Super" on the bell engraving and drew an incorrect conclusion about this one being a Super with different engraving due to engraving designs changing over the years, as they do so often with Conns. These are my first two Holtons and I'll readily admit that as a Conn enthusiast, I've had little interest in the Holton marque until now. Sigh, I wish the Holton Loyalist site was up and running.

Still, I'm not disappointed in the least as I've still got less than $160 total invested in two vintage cornets. Hopefully I can get both cornets back into good playing condition and either sell one, or give one to my brother as a gift. It's all good!

02-12-2009, 01:25 AM	#1
Ursa Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 231	'64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? I just won an old Holton cornet on eBay: HOLTON CORNET - eBay (item 180327443019 end time Feb-11-09 21:21:41 PST) I haven't played a Holton cornet in maybe 25 years; I remember the Collegiates as being an OK horn with no glaring faults and a sweet, somewhat lively tone. What can I expect from this old beastie? BTW, I'm starting trumpet lessons Monday... __________________ Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds... Besson BE709 Trumpet E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell Conn 6E New Wonder Eb Alto Horn Conn 4D F/Eb French Horn Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium Indiana Band Instrument Co. EEb Sousaphone Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba Last edited by Ursa; 02-12-2009 at 01:33 AM.

02-12-2009, 08:15 AM	#2
MFfan Forte User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 1,907	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? Probably about the same. I don't know if they changed much over the years. I used to have a 50's Collegiate cornet and it had the qualities you described and had good valve action. I traded it to an elementary school music teacher for the Getzen I have now, as the entire spectrum of the Holton sound was not as good, to me, as my other ones at the time. __________________ Dave Rafferty Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?) 55-56 York Artist Trumpet Besson 609 Trumpet 1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet 1948 Besson cornet 1946 King Master Cornet www.kalamazooconcertband.org

02-12-2009, 04:29 PM	#3
Ursa Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 231	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? Thanks, MFfan, for the insights. I also had a Getzen cornet (a 300-series) and I'd have to say its tone was more complex and colorful than the Olds Ambassador cornet I once owned. Its tone was also more delicious than that of the Holton Collegiates and Conn Directors we had in our school band. But, my Getzen was so poorly built I wouldn't buy another one without personally inspecting it first. The Holton may be the next best thing in terms of tone...we'll see when it gets here. I can't wait to hear what she'll do. __________________ Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds... Besson BE709 Trumpet E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell Conn 6E New Wonder Eb Alto Horn Conn 4D F/Eb French Horn Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium Indiana Band Instrument Co. EEb Sousaphone Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba

02-12-2009, 05:44 PM	#4
MFfan Forte User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 1,907	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? Let us know of your impressions. Suprised the 300 had problems. My old 80- Getzen is built like a tank and just as heavy Looks like you got a good deal. $21.50 for a working cornet is good. Mine cost somewhere in the $30 range if I remember correctly. I think about the only Holton I would want now is a Super. __________________ Dave Rafferty Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?) 55-56 York Artist Trumpet Besson 609 Trumpet 1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet 1948 Besson cornet 1946 King Master Cornet www.kalamazooconcertband.org Last edited by MFfan; 02-12-2009 at 05:48 PM.

02-12-2009, 06:21 PM	#5
lovevixen555 Banned Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 633	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? Holton trumpets tend tohave better then industry standard valves and usualy if taken care of last a long time. The Colligate line is just as you described. If you happen to get a Super Colliagte with two piece bell jump on it. In my opinion the Super Colligates sound very much like a French made pro-model with a two piece bell. The ones with Nickle bell flairs play especialy good when you play them softly. They really shine played softly played loudly they are just ok. Now my experince with my son's 1946 Holton Clooigate in Silver is a different story. I would put it someplace between a killer student model and a an Intermediate model of today. The further back you go with Holtons the less student like the Colligates are. In fact his student model has the same bell and bell profile and slides as some of Holtons promodels and the same valve engine. THe main difference being his does not have the reverse leadpipe or the flowers on the bell and the main slide is rouned then the pro models. So I would imagine that your cornet will be right up their with a modern day Yamaha Student model and maybe better. As for the Getzen 300 my Getzen 300 is from 1965 and while the valve are excellent they did go cheap on the bell and the slides. THe slides the skipped several machineing steps that would be expected on a more expensive trumpet. The bell is paper thing and really has a nasty tone to it and is kind of dead. The lacquer was cellose lacquer. Now I will say this though the leadpipe is the heaviest leadpipe I have run into I could hammer 16p nails into 2x4's with that thing!!! It also showed almost Zero sings of corrision. The brazes where also very strong. The water keys are a bit cheap looking but are still working great. Iwould not though pass judgment on a modern Getzen 300 based on my 1965 model. You know I am not looking at buying any new Holtons unless I come across a nice Super I can pick up cheap. I will say though I have not been disapointed with any Holton I have bought. Even my Son's T602 is a solidly built and well engineered student trumpet. They have covered the basics inside and out. I have yet to run into a Holton that you could not just pick up and play. Plus they usualy can be had in fairly good shape for low $$$$ which is also good. I think Holtons are greatly underrated especialy from a student standpoint. Their older stuff is so much better in my opinion then most modern student instruments and can be had so cheaply! Holton from what I understand pioneered the reverse leadpipe.

02-14-2009, 12:02 PM	#6
Charlesl20 New Friend Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 10	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? I can't speak for the cornet version, but I have two Super Collegiate trumpets, and they are great horns in my opinion. Don't compare them to the normal Collegiates, they are an entirely different animal. Looking at the pics however, that one is a standard Collegiate which is an "OK" student horn. Last edited by Charlesl20; 02-14-2009 at 12:05 PM.

02-14-2009, 06:26 PM	#7
Ursa Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 231	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? Found a Super Collegiate on eBay and bought it, too. I hope it plays as neat as it looks.... Vintage HOLTON COLLEGIATE Cornet - eBay (item 120374730454 end time Feb-14-09 15:28:25 PST) I might have overpaid a little considering the repaired bell...it should be an interesting comparison between the Collegiate and Super Collegiate, and also to see how they stack up against my memories of my Olds Ambassador. Hope they both arrive soon! __________________ Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds... Besson BE709 Trumpet E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell Conn 6E New Wonder Eb Alto Horn Conn 4D F/Eb French Horn Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium Indiana Band Instrument Co. EEb Sousaphone Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba

02-14-2009, 09:13 PM	#8
MFfan Forte User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 1,907	Re: '64 Holton Collegiate Cornet on the way...what to expect? Looks like a decent buy. Let us know how they work out for you. I agree with Newguy, I should have noticed it wasn't a Super right away. Both trumpet and cornet versions turn up from time to time. __________________ Dave Rafferty Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?) 55-56 York Artist Trumpet Besson 609 Trumpet 1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet 1948 Besson cornet 1946 King Master Cornet www.kalamazooconcertband.org Last edited by MFfan; 02-15-2009 at 01:54 PM. Reason: new info

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