Digger

G'day!! I have an old Besson Cornet "Class A, New Standard, HP, Besson, London Paris New York, Made in England", serial no. 271397, and I was just wondering if I could find out any info about it at all, such as how old it is etc. Be happy for any info.

Cheers,

Peter.

Tootsall

There may be someone here (in fact I can think of a couple) who can answer your question. I'd also suggest going to http://www.brass-forum.co.uk . It's loaded with brass banders!

Cornet1

'New Standard' was the first range of brass band instruments made by Besson after it was aquired by Boosey and Hawkes immediately after WWII. This range of products was essentially similar to B&H's 'Imperial' line and continued in production until killed off by B&H's amalgamation plan in 1975 when the factories went over to only making the B&H instruments. The 'Besson' name was allowed to die but in the early 1990's B&H's business difficulties caused it to dissinterr the name to slap on it's own brass range in a feeble attempt to enhance market profile, so that the B&H designed instruments such as the 'Sovereign' became Besson models. As we now know, this ruse failed.

Your serial number denotes manufacture in approximately 1957....20xxxxx 1955/29xxxxx 1960.

Some Besson instruments of this era were actually made in the B&H factory and have the then new and revolutionary 'microbor' valves with white plastic guide rings and exposed springs.

At the start of production virtually all brass bands in the UK played in 'high pitch' rather than in low, or orchestral pitch like now. During the overlap period instruments were made in both pitches and this is engraved on the bell as either 'HP' or 'LP'. Many HP instruments were converted to LP with varying degrees of success. This can be seen as small, usually loose, collars on the valve slides and a possible difference in the silver plating on main slide which was usually completely changed for a new larger item.

New Standard were good quality instruments and were played by some of the best brass bands during the early post war period.

MFfan

I have an old Besson 8-10 cornet, ser#407xxx, bought from ebay a few weeks ago. It is in good shape and plays with a nice mellow sound. I think someone on another thread mentioned the buffet-crampton web site as a serial number source. Mine dates to about 1967 or so. I have been trying to find a coherent source of how Besson graded and numbered their horns in that period, etc. I see trumpet for sale 2-20, maybe 2-10, etc. someone surmised that maybe they graded to 10-10 for cornets? Anyone have any knowledge on this? I am also looking for a case other than the factory hard case. The Gator soft cornet ads don't show the interior or how the horn sits in it. Thanks for any help. Great forum to stumble onto. I know the old besson site is defunct now.

Cornet1

i assume you '8-10' is an American pattern 'long' cornet as I have not seen a UK cornet with this model name. For UK use these were usually described on sales literature as 'mezzo-trumpets' and usually took their names from the trumpet range. '8-10' was a mid/upper range instrument,..there was a 10-10 trumpet.

During the 50's/60's the Besson trumpet range was fairly incoherent and at the mercy of the parent company, Boosey and Hawkes, who also made a roughly parallel range of perhaps less quality and stature than Besson. Some components and some actual production of models was shared between the two factories an dserial numbers were combined after about 1952(?)

At this time the USA was a major influence in the music/life-style scene so many models of trumpet were given an American styling both for export reasons and to try to meet the aspirations of UK big band players who looked to the US for inspiration but could not easily get US models. However, there was also a very distinct British music ethos with many classical and other brass players who wanted completely British instruments so other models of the trumpet range were aimed squarely at them,..these are the models named after English towns, the 'Stratford' 'Oxford' and 'Westminster' models etc.

Brass band instruments (and those for military bands), of course were always a separate production although some small components were shared with the trumpet range.

The top Besson trumpet model of this era was the fabulous 'New Creation' which was played by leading musicians around the world in both symphony and dance orchestras. This was a very expensive trumpet with excellent playing characteristics and finished in gold plate.

MFfan

Thanks for the information. I am a large Brass band fan, and we have the great Brass Band of Battle Creek nearby to enjoy , and love the BB sounds.
There were apparently a lot of Besson student cornets and trumpets used in this country, as they appear on EBay quite often. I don't know the history of mine, just bought it from a guy in Chicago area who sells other horns and parts. We have a fine concert band here in Kalamazoo I play my bach Strad in and use the Besson, and formerly a Reynolds emporer in a 9pc swing band. I have a friend in Wales, whose son is in the youth band of the Deinollen silver Band. I see the upper models of Besson are very pricey and this and other forums are very educating for me. Thanks again.

Attached Images

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MFfan

Hi, again. Maybe cornet1 can answer this one. Goodwill industries has a auction site similar to ebay. I see an Embassy Cornet (mis-identified as trumpet) made in England, and it looks to be similar to the Besson 8-10 cornet I have. I can't find anything on the web. Thanks to anyone that can help. The photos on the auction aren't too clear.

Cornet1

The 'Embassy' and 'Acadamy' names were used by Besson/B&H for certain markets in the 60's, usually on mid range instruments...

The US styled instrument in the auction looks similar to the 'Imperial' item.

I have seen the 'Embassy' name added to the 'Stratford' model but have no knowledge of why the model lines would be confused like that. During the 50's to mid 70's before all the Besson models were killed off by B&H Besson was a world wide exporter and there are many curious sub-versions of the ranges.

The case shown in the auction looks to be later than th einstrument to me....

MFfan

Thanks for the speedy reply! Until, if ever, Besson gets documentary evidence of there models, etc. over the years, folks like you will be important for threads to connect the dots, as they say. I know I have learned alot since I go my 8-10. I agree that is a later case and not like any Besson case I haved seen. I would like to find one that would fit mine as I don't care for the Besson case. The standard ones, like the one for my Reynolds Emporer cornet won't work becase of the differences in tubing width, etc. I think a Protec cornet case would work, but have to save my shekels. Thanks again.

lrthomp

Cornet1,

Your authoritative answer regarding the Besson cornet (New Standard) encourages
me to believe that you might be able to help with my flugel horn, also a Besson
New Standard, serial number 204334. I have looked for but haven't found a serial
number list for Bessons. May I ask you for your source or a link? My horn looks
too new to be from the '50s, but I'd be delighted to confirm that's
so.

Regards,

Robert T.
Brooklyn New York

Hello Robert,

I can confirm that your flugle horn was made in 1955.

For serial nos of instruments exported to the US you could use Lee Sax's list
here; http://www.saxworx.com/boozy2.htm

After the early 50's,...I think about late 1952, Besson and B&H combined
their serial no system into the B&H list/method of numbering.

Kind regards, Cornet1