Besson Stratford

Zeroseries · 10-25-2006, 01:01 PM

hi i have Besson Stratford that ive had since i was little i dont remember how my father got but weve had it in my family for awhile and i have been trying to find information about it for a long time...the only thing i can guess after reading these threads is that it was made somewhere in the 1960's and that its a besson made turmpet because of it having the enclosed springs on the valves

the serial # is 285309

it says 'Made in England'
and the bell has besson on it with an 16th note stem going thru the name and having the word Stratford inside the Circle of the note with the "made in england' below that

any information about this instrument is appreciated ive played for a long time and would love to know the history of this horn

Thank You

Cornet1 · 10-25-2006, 05:59 PM

This is a bit earlier than you think,...late 50's as 292000 is for 1960.

other than that I can't really add any more than has already been mentioned here about the 'Stratford'.

Is yours a silver plated example or laquered? If laq, has it got the nickel valve slides of the later 'Stratford' models?

Zeroseries · 10-25-2006, 11:21 PM

yeah the valve slides are nickel
and the valve casings, i think, are copper due to them having a darker shade than the rest of the horn
the valve slides are nickel with brass ends and brass bracings

Zeroseries · 10-25-2006, 11:24 PM

im wondering if it is worth investing in this horn to have the valves replated
any information would be greatly appreciated

Cornet1 · 10-26-2006, 02:59 AM

Besson instruments of this period were of very high quality and even compare favourably with the best modern manufacturing methods. The "copper" appearance of the valves is due to the fact that the valve clusters were electrphoretically laqueured,...effectively plated with a hard brass alloy having a high copper content. That used by Besson was very hard and intended to counteract wear, both inside an out, over a long period. As far as I am aware this process is not used much on modern instruments, if at all, due to it's high cost and intimidating control issues. Also, few modern factories are interested in assuming that the instrument will be used for a couple of lifetimes!

Sadly, these fine instruments don't have a current price which really reflects their true value, so it is difficult to evaluate the investment of having valves replated. If your valves really have worn to the extent that air is escaping into the cylinders then that is very unusual as these valves were exceptionally hard wearing.

Where are you situated?

Zeroseries · 10-26-2006, 01:36 PM

i live in Hollister CA for right now
it is about 45 mins South of San Jose CA and about 1.5 hrs from San Francisco CA

BADBOY-DON · 10-26-2006, 01:48 PM

I wonder also if the valve guides are.....plastic looking material or metal?
Does the 1st and 3rd valve and lead-pipe have nickle trim and what mouthpiece was included with that cornet?
Many of the later model Student Bessons that displayed a tooled musical note, with the Stratford logo that illustrated the Besson signature across that note (at a 45 degree angle) These student model horns, many came included a #5 "Star" mouthpiece. (Nice fat rim, fairly deep but narrow cup.

A fellow church choir member let me borrow this little student model cornet for a while...after my old "road-rage" Besson Sov' cornet was "borrowed forever" out of my old Z car.
this little #5 mp. was an easy blow, felt reeeally comfortable...gave me a nice range...BUT SOUNDED FLUFFY N' STUFFY, compared to my beloved old deep V mouthpiece that disappeared with my old Commuter Besson Sov.

Bottom line: That Besson Cornet sounds more like one of these little Student models, and the price is truly not worth selling and perhaps should be kept as a family reminder, or passed down to a family member to learn the life long fun of playing a musicial instrument. Then one can move up to a beautiful new shiney Gezten Cornet....that will let the music spirits soar...n' allthatjazz.

Absence make the heart grow fonder?

Cornet1 · 10-26-2006, 02:03 PM

I think Zeroseries is enquiring about a 'Stratford' trumpet. It was not a "student" instrument,...it was mid range for Besson in it's era.

The "cornet" that you mention is a B&H 'Imperial' engraved with the 'stratford' name and made largely for the US market,...in England it was offered, but rarely sold, as a 'mezzo-trumpet'. it has little to do with the Besson cornet range of instruments.

camelbrass · 10-26-2006, 02:20 PM

They're obviously like London buses!!

A silver (?) one just showed up on e-bay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Besson-S...QQcmdZViewItem

Regards,

Trevor

Zeroseries · 10-27-2006, 12:08 AM

yeah the trumpet being shown on the ebay bid looks a lot like mine but mine is a brass trumpet with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and tuning slides that are nickel plated
i wanted to know how nice of an instrument it is
and if it is worth investing into?
or should i just purchase a better horn?

10-25-2006, 01:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6	Besson Stratford hi i have Besson Stratford that ive had since i was little i dont remember how my father got but weve had it in my family for awhile and i have been trying to find information about it for a long time...the only thing i can guess after reading these threads is that it was made somewhere in the 1960's and that its a besson made turmpet because of it having the enclosed springs on the valves the serial # is 285309 it says 'Made in England' and the bell has besson on it with an 16th note stem going thru the name and having the word Stratford inside the Circle of the note with the "made in england' below that any information about this instrument is appreciated ive played for a long time and would love to know the history of this horn Thank You
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6

10-25-2006, 11:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6	yeah the valve slides are nickel and the valve casings, i think, are copper due to them having a darker shade than the rest of the horn the valve slides are nickel with brass ends and brass bracings
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6

10-25-2006, 11:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6	im wondering if it is worth investing in this horn to have the valves replated any information would be greatly appreciated
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6

10-26-2006, 02:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Cornet1 Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex, England Posts: 131	Besson instruments of this period were of very high quality and even compare favourably with the best modern manufacturing methods. The "copper" appearance of the valves is due to the fact that the valve clusters were electrphoretically laqueured,...effectively plated with a hard brass alloy having a high copper content. That used by Besson was very hard and intended to counteract wear, both inside an out, over a long period. As far as I am aware this process is not used much on modern instruments, if at all, due to it's high cost and intimidating control issues. Also, few modern factories are interested in assuming that the instrument will be used for a couple of lifetimes! Sadly, these fine instruments don't have a current price which really reflects their true value, so it is difficult to evaluate the investment of having valves replated. If your valves really have worn to the extent that air is escaping into the cylinders then that is very unusual as these valves were exceptionally hard wearing. Where are you situated? Last edited by Cornet1 : 10-26-2006 at 03:38 AM.

10-26-2006, 01:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6	i live in Hollister CA for right now it is about 45 mins South of San Jose CA and about 1.5 hrs from San Francisco CA
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6

10-25-2006, 05:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cornet1 Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex, England Posts: 131	This is a bit earlier than you think,...late 50's as 292000 is for 1960. other than that I can't really add any more than has already been mentioned here about the 'Stratford'. Is yours a silver plated example or laquered? If laq, has it got the nickel valve slides of the later 'Stratford' models?

10-26-2006, 01:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
BADBOY-DON Pianissimo User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 219	I wonder also if the valve guides are.....plastic looking material or metal? Does the 1st and 3rd valve and lead-pipe have nickle trim and what mouthpiece was included with that cornet? Many of the later model Student Bessons that displayed a tooled musical note, with the Stratford logo that illustrated the Besson signature across that note (at a 45 degree angle) These student model horns, many came included a #5 "Star" mouthpiece. (Nice fat rim, fairly deep but narrow cup. A fellow church choir member let me borrow this little student model cornet for a while...after my old "road-rage" Besson Sov' cornet was "borrowed forever" out of my old Z car. this little #5 mp. was an easy blow, felt reeeally comfortable...gave me a nice range...BUT SOUNDED FLUFFY N' STUFFY, compared to my beloved old deep V mouthpiece that disappeared with my old Commuter Besson Sov. Bottom line: That Besson Cornet sounds more like one of these little Student models, and the price is truly not worth selling and perhaps should be kept as a family reminder, or passed down to a family member to learn the life long fun of playing a musicial instrument. Then one can move up to a beautiful new shiney Gezten Cornet....that will let the music spirits soar...n' allthatjazz. Absence make the heart grow fonder?

10-26-2006, 02:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cornet1 Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex, England Posts: 131	I think Zeroseries is enquiring about a 'Stratford' trumpet. It was not a "student" instrument,...it was mid range for Besson in it's era. The "cornet" that you mention is a B&H 'Imperial' engraved with the 'stratford' name and made largely for the US market,...in England it was offered, but rarely sold, as a 'mezzo-trumpet'. it has little to do with the Besson cornet range of instruments. Last edited by Cornet1 : 10-26-2006 at 02:08 PM.

10-26-2006, 02:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
camelbrass Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 781	They're obviously like London buses!! A silver (?) one just showed up on e-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Besson-S...QQcmdZViewItem Regards, Trevor

10-27-2006, 12:08 AM	#10 (permalink)
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6	yeah the trumpet being shown on the ebay bid looks a lot like mine but mine is a brass trumpet with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and tuning slides that are nickel plated i wanted to know how nice of an instrument it is and if it is worth investing into? or should i just purchase a better horn?
Zeroseries New Friend Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6

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