DiaxII

I began reading all available information on the so-called "red rot". From what I've read it's a worst horn disease that sometimes happens mostly to brass instruments and almost never to saxophones and other woodwinds. (In this message I'm not going to touch the red rod itself as there is enough info on it all over the web.)

Since in this forum section there must be many experienced eBay buyers of trumpets and cornets let me ask you how often did you encounter a nice looking instrument off eBay that turned out eaten through by nasty red rot when you received it? How often does red rot attack a trumpet to the extent that the instrument becomes unplayable while visually can look near mint? If you buy 100 vintage trumpets off eBay will 10 of them be useless because of the red rod problem?

Here I should explain what I mean. For example, someone used his trumpet extensively over 5 years in a marching band but gave it a bath regularly, cleaned the leadpipe, maintained the trumpet well in other words. After last time he used it the trumpet was cleaned as well and went into storage until it was found in the attic and brought to eBay. The trumpet may look worn on the outside but has no red rod problem because of proper care.
In another scenario a trumpet was used for three months at home, never cleaned, accumulated lots of nasty staff inside and was stored afterwards for 40 years with all the residue inside. Would this likely cause the red rot develop and eat the trumpet away? This instrument may look fantastic but be useless.

I'm just trying to figure out with your help how safe are all these eBay "bargains" in respect to red rot. You can buy a nice looking student trumpet of the past like Olds Ambassador for $150 but how often will this nice looking trumpet (not counting all other possible vintage instrument problems) be rotten through? What is the scope of this problem?

I promise to leave all best deals to you guys so please don't tell me every trumpet on eBay is affected by red rod! :)

MFfan

This is a good point to bring up from time to time. I have bought a number of cornets and trumpets from ebay and Shopgoodwill over the past few years including: '17 Concertone cornet, ? Marceau cornet, 30's Czech trumpet, '33 American Standard Cornet, 67 Ambassador trumpet, 73 Medalist trumpet, 46 King Master cornet, 55 Besson trumpet, 67 Besson cornet, 48 Besson cornet, Besson 609 trumpet, 73 Ambassador cornet,53 Holton Collegiate cornet, 67 Reynolds Emperor cornet, etc. The American Standard and Ambassador cornet were the only ones I saw before buying.
They came in various states of internal cleanliness, but I never saw evidence of "red rot" on any of them, although I don't have many of them left for various reasons, but they were all learning experiences in evaluating pictured horns, reading the clues in the ad presentations , adjusting your expectations from fantasy to reality and much more. Selling price wasn't a factor for me.
Most cost me anywhere from $30-$75 less shipping.

__________________
Dave Rafferty
Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?)
Lyrical Trumpet (Tokan)

Besson 609 Trumpet
1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet
1948 Besson cornet
1946 King Master Cornet
www.kalamazooconcertband.org

A.N.A. Mendez

Red rot, the boogie man of the trumpet world....WAY over stressed IMHO
I have an Olds French model that has a bit in the leadpipe, plays beautifully, when I'm 85 it might need attention.........

__________________
(Above) Alexanders ragtime band-circa 1960

"Baby, I'm already the coolest, and the hippist, now you want me to be on time too?" Buddy Love

"We appointed all our worst generals to command our armies, and our best generals to edit our newspapers." Robert E. Lee

veery715

I currently have about over 20 brass instruments and more have come and gone. None of them have had any significant red rot.

__________________
Never play it the same way once.

Trumpets:
Lawler Bb / Stage 1 Calif Bb Special / Conn 12B / Yamaha 8310Z / Getzen 990S / Hunter-Diamond II /
Stage 1 California C / Mannheim (Chinese) / Benetone / 1934 Cleveland (HN White) 603 Silver Plate w/ Gold Bell / Jaeger NY
PUJE!!
Kanstul ZKT 1525 Flugelhorn
Cornets:
'77 B&H 921 Sovereign / '41 Conn 36A / King Super 20 Master / '68 Olds Ambassador / Conn 18A /
Easyplay (??) / King HN White 1904 Bb/A

veery715

You and it are in a race to see who needs it first!

Come to think of it, I'm in that race too....

v

Dale Proctor

Unless it's been intentionally covered up with a new lacquer or plating job (or selective and/or out of focus pictures on an eBay auction), any red rot that's bad enough to worry about will be very evident on the outside of the horn.

__________________


Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

"Hit it hard and wish it well." - Claude Gordon

operagost

If the red rot is bad enough to affect the integrity of the horn, it will be visible. If it hasn't appeared on the surface, then the damage is superficial and you won't even know it's there unless you look through the leadpipe and see the "lumps".

__________________
2006 Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
1987 Conn 100B "Doc Severinsen"
1946 Conn 22B "New York Symphony"

DiaxII

Fine, I see red rot must be overstressed then. This is what I was actually expecting to hear from you. I'm familiar with vintage saxophones and have several of them in my posession. In sax land it's really a rare talk about any kind of brass corrosion other than occasional questions about removing 'green stuff' or such.
When I came into trumpet world I found this 'red rot' threat and was intrigued why so many online articles on trumpet maitenance mentioned this and I never heard of it in saxland.
If there was really a problem I though there could be only two major reasons for that:
1. different brass alloys used in trumpet and saxophone manufacture
2. inability to wipe off all internal moisture after playing with all human saliva chemicals remaining in the tubing

TotalEclipse

As far as I know 'red rot' is usually caused by acids leaching the zinc from the brass. Whether it is from the spit or from the flux used in the manufacturing process.
Both of these may explain why you don't see it often in brasswind.
A trumpet has more nooks and crannies for the spit to build up and stay for extended periods of time and I believe there is more soldering on a trumpet which may affect the red rot as well.

I could be totally way off here but this is just my thoughts on the blight that is red rot...
Saying that I have bought alot of brass instruments from online and have never recieved a horn that was badly affected. Might just be lucky.

oldlou

In my 'accumilation' I have two examples of advanced and debilitating red rot. In the one cornet I have used Super Glue to seal a solder joint that has been destroyed by the rot. The other cornet, a Conn 12A, is in need of extensive rebuilding, including a complete leaderpipe replacement. I no longer have the toolery to do such an extensive and precise manufacture. This means that if I decide to spend the extensive coinage required to get this job done properly, I will have to send these little horns to one of the top renovators here in the U.S.A.. At my advanced age and poor physical condition I doubt that this will get done. It hurts me to see exceptional quality musical instruments destroyed by a total lack of preventive maintainance.


OLDLOU>>

__________________
Couturier trumpet
York Master Model trumpet
York Elite trumpet
York Airflow cornet
King super 20 Master Model cornet
King Liberty trumpet
Reynolds Professional cornet
Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell
Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
B&H Sovereign cornet
G.R.Band Instr. cornet
Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Many others no room to list