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Vintage Trumpets / Cornets Discuss BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400 in the Equipment forums; Originally Posted by VetPsychWars I was just curious, don't really have much of an opinion either way. That tuning slide ...
  1. #41
    Mezzo Piano User Claude Gnocchi's Avatar
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars View Post
    I was just curious, don't really have much of an opinion either way.

    That tuning slide doesn't look right... might be from a Holton or Olds.

    Tom
    Probably, but since I have dozens of trumpet parts in my studio, I don't really know. The interesting part is that I tried that one against the correct part; and this one just sounded better......go figure! I'm having a blast doing these...and as long as the original horn improves, I really don't care about "authenticity." These horns are great, but they are not "collector's item," just plain great trumpets.

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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Gnocchi View Post
    Probably, but since I have dozens of trumpet parts in my studio, I don't really know. The interesting part is that I tried that one against the correct part; and this one just sounded better......go figure! I'm having a blast doing these...and as long as the original horn improves, I really don't care about "authenticity." These horns are great, but they are not "collector's item," just plain great trumpets.
    Again, just curious. If it plays better and it fits, go for it!

    I find a horn can play better when the slides are tight... and then you grease them so they're tighter!

    Tom
    Buescher Lightweight 400
    Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
    GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

  3. #43
    Forte User nieuwguyski's Avatar
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Quote Originally Posted by VetPsychWars View Post
    That tuning slide doesn't look right... might be from a Holton or Olds.

    Tom
    From the water key, it looks like a late '50s Olds Ambassador slide.
    J. Notso Nieuwguyski

  4. #44
    Mezzo Piano User Claude Gnocchi's Avatar
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    ...could very well be from an Ambassador, as I have had 4 or 5 of them that I later cannibalized for parts......

  5. #45
    Mezzo Piano User Claude Gnocchi's Avatar
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    BUESCHER 205.jpg BUESCHER-205-Bell.jpg

    Here is another fine Buescher creation of mine: Vintage Buescher 205 w/Holton Lewellyn pipe and a Japanese Zen-On, Tanabe bell. Trent Austin ACB #5 mouthpiece. Sounds real good & dark.......
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  6. #46
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Even in the 1960 era we did not have a concept of pro horns vs. beginner horns. We were perhaps as ignorant as the gravel in a drive way but we expected the player to provide all of the quality. It tended to be one of the self fulfilling kinds of nonsense as the kids that played the best were the ones who spent more time with their horns and the kid's parents tended to respond by buying more expensive horns for him as music seemed to rule the kid's every waking moment. So the divide between the best in a brass section and the worst player in the brass section grew wider and wider. One of my fellow players actually got a Ph.D in music and frankly was the worst brass player in out 100 piece school band. I don't think he ever learned to sound half way good.

  7. #47
    Mezzo Piano User Claude Gnocchi's Avatar
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Quote Originally Posted by glorybe View Post
    Even in the 1960 era we did not have a concept of pro horns vs. beginner horns. We were perhaps as ignorant as the gravel in a drive way but we expected the player to provide all of the quality. It tended to be one of the self fulfilling kinds of nonsense as the kids that played the best were the ones who spent more time with their horns and the kid's parents tended to respond by buying more expensive horns for him as music seemed to rule the kid's every waking moment. So the divide between the best in a brass section and the worst player in the brass section grew wider and wider. One of my fellow players actually got a Ph.D in music and frankly was the worst brass player in out 100 piece school band. I don't think he ever learned to sound half way good.
    Very true...the worst two trumpet players I knew when I was just trying to get some trumpet-playing techniques in conservatory, were the two "trumpet professors" there.....very mediocre trumpet players, but since they had music PHDs, they were "qualified." It was a joke, as most of the students could play a horn much better than them.......sad!
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Maybe, but would you rather take a lesson from Maurice Andre [substitute your favorite ex-player here] on his deathbed, or the best kid in your band?

    The student should excel his teacher. Some teachers make this easier than others...
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    Mezzo Piano User Claude Gnocchi's Avatar
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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    Quote Originally Posted by jimc View Post
    Maybe, but would you rather take a lesson from Maurice Andre [substitute your favorite ex-player here] on his deathbed, or the best kid in your band?

    The student should excel his teacher. Some teachers make this easier than others...
    True, in general, but if the "teacher" is a mediocre player, how or why would I want to emulate him? Imagine Wynton or Rafael Mendez teaching students....no one would excel them......

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    Re: BUESCHER - Aristocrat versus Custom-Built versus 400

    I guess my point is that it can be more complicated than that. It might be easier to make comparisons for things like a dance instructor, where an older performer simply can't do it like they used to. (We are mighty fortunate in this, there's no particular upper limit for us.) "Why would I want to learn from him, he can barely get around with that cane he has?" The point there, I hope, is obvious.

    The teacher/student relationship is more complex than just churning out exact copies of the teacher. The student has more responsibility than that. Even if the teacher just isn't that good, does that mean you can't learn anything? Is that your excuse, Mr. Wanna-set-the-world-on-fire? Better not let it be!

    I guess I have two more random points. 1) Teaching is its own thing, and a really good teacher could still be of great benefit to you, if you were receptive, even if his own playing ability was not so great. His listening ability is more important than his own playing ability. As, in a way, is yours. 2) In US public schools at least, the paperwork is overly highly valued. Maurice Andre in fact could not get a job as a trumpet instructor in any publicly-funded school in the US, as I understand it. He did not have the correct educational background. I.e., paperwork. Stupid, but there it is. (I'm not sure that an honorary degree would qualify, though he would probably not have had any difficulty landing himself some of these.)

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