whwright

This is a Holton trumpet from 1912. I'm sure that it originally had lots of different slides, but by the time I got it they were long gone.

Can anybody tell by looking what key it should play in, and if the slides are currently in a valid configuration?

BTW: I know the pinky-ring isn't original.

Thanks!

Wayne.

Cornet1

This trumpet appears to be configured to play in 'A'.

The tuning slide has an extention piece which can be removed to allow playing in 'Bb'.

The valve slides look like those for 'A' also as they have small extending collars fitted. If these collars are NOT removable then it looks like you can only play this instrument in 'A' as it stands.

The simplest analysis is by playing alongside a modern instrument.

rowuk

I have a Holton Long Cornet (in Bb) from that time period and the valve slides look identical (the part that looks like a collar is not removable). Whether the tuning slide extension is original, I can't say - the fittings do look correct!

whwright

Thanks for the replies!

I finally found some time to sit down and play it. I compared it to my b-flat Benge, and it isn't even close. I don't have a "C" trumpet, but this Holton is WAY flat anyhow. But it's not flat enough to play in "A."

So I pushed all the slides all the way in, and used my tuner to discover that it plays "in tune" when the tuner is set to "432." That's with the slides all the way in.

I was using a "Heim Model" mouthpiece (it says neither "1" or "2") that is from the correct era (Chicago era) and the shank fits correctly.

I'm afraid that somebody got the slides mixed up, and all the "extras" were lost. That's too bad, because it's a really neat looking horn (my poor pictures don't do it justice) and other than that all the pieces are there.

I'll keep thinking about it, and if anybody has more ideas please let me know!

rowuk: I play a 1913 Holton long model cornet for dixyland and swing stuff with an "original" mouthpiece. I love it! (I was disappointed when this trumpet didn't play as well.) Do you play yours regularly?

Thanks again!

Tootsall

I'm fairly certain that you could get one of the instrument restorer/rebuilders to go over the horn and replace the missing parts. One such person is Rich Ita (http://www.brassinstrumentworkshop.com ). These guys specialize in knowing all the different makes and models "from back when" and could make that horn look (and play) like it just came out the factory door for the first time.

nieuwguyski

whwright,

At a guess, it sounds like you have a high-pitch trumpet in A. However, it looks like the trumpet has a slide extension (shaped like an "H") between the tuning slide and the fixed tubing of the rest of the trumpet. Pull the main tuning slide all the way off and see if the remaining brace is attached, top and bottom, to two sections of tubing that also pull off like a tuning slide. Obviously, don't pull hard enough to damage anything -- if in doubt, take the trumpet to a repair tech.

However if that is an extension slide that you manage to extract, when you put the main tuning slide back on without the extension you may have a Bb trumpet. Unfortunately, probably a high-pitch Bb trumpet.

whwright

Hmm. High pitch in "A." That combo never occurred to me. It strikes me as strange that someone would play it in that configuration, and then tuck it away in an attic -- in the case -- without any other pieces.

But I suppose stranger things happen.

A side question: just how much music was written for a "high pitch in A" trumpet?

Here's a picture with the tuning slides pulled. You can't really tell in the picture, but the "top" slide is a different size than the "bottom" slide (I can't recall right now which is bigger). Also, the "crook" does not fit tightly without the "H" part. Pretty confusing...



Thanks for the responses!

nieuwguyski

Wow. The inner legs on that tuning slide are short! Your trumpet truly appears to be an odd duck, and I hesitate to claim that any typical generalizations apply to it, however:

Bb/A trumpets and cornets frequently don't have separate sets of valve slides for both keys. Instead, the valve slides are pushed all the way in for Bb, and pulled out to a scribed line for A. In this scenario, your trumpet wouldn't be missing any slides -- it would simply be a high-pitch Bb instrument with a tuning slide extension for A, and the valve slides would each have a line showing how far to pull them for tuning to A. Your finding the trumpet in this configuration would have simply been "all slides present and accounted for."

All I can suggest is try lubing the crook slide heavily with a thick grease to get a good seal without the extension slide and see how the trumpet tunes in its shorter configuration.

whwright

Well, I took out the "H" pipe and gave it a whirl. It takes the horn up exactly half a step. It plays a "B" with the tuner set at 432. The tuner says it's a B-flat when set at 460. Basically, it takes the horn from being really flat to being REALLY sharp.

As best as I can tell, there aren't any lines scribed in the valve slides, and it doesn't look like they've been worked hard so I don't think there were ever any lines scribed there.

Hmm...

I'll keep thinking...

rowuk

Hi,
yes I do! The valves are so worn that it takes some effort to play. I need to get them plated but have been procrastinating out of fear that it won't survive the repair.
I have 2 original mouthpieces (a 1 and a 2) that I don't use. I have a Monette B2FL that works very well. Mine is sandblast silver outside and gold plate in the bell.