a3tripod

Hi all! I'm new here, and have joined TM as a result of having read some superbly informative posts by your members. I've recently dusted off my old trumpet that my father gave to me when i first started playing (22 years ago). I had forgotten how much i enjoyed my trumpet, and the sentimental value it has for me. My very clever wife pointed out that it is very "cool" that my kids ar elearning to play trumpet, on the same instrument that me, my father, and his olderst brother had learned on. Some quick math to add to her point, and I figured that my trumpet is about 60 years old.

having no clue about the actual history of my trumpet (both dad and uncle are long passed) I google and stumbled upon the ConnLoyalist site. With that site's help, I learned that my Conn was a 12B and was manufactuered in either 1948 or 1949 (serial is 368409).

What I'm tying to find out at this point, is whatever information ppl cna offer. My bell is engraved (C.G. Conn Ltd, Elkhart IND) and its a reddish coppery color. the rest of the trumpet is brass looking. My case is the orignal case that came with it. It's solid wood contruction with a burgandy velvet interior. The case is covered in a brown leather, though the corners have worn off. there is also a metal circular plaque/badge that reads: "Choice of the Artists. Conn" and has what appears to be 3 musicians walking.

I can take pictures and upload them if it will help, though I migt need a little assistance doing so.

Thanks in advance for your help and information! I'm enjoying this bit of history in my life.

MFfan

Welcome to the Forum! Sounds like you have a Coprion 12B as you have found on the connloyalist. I don't know what else there is to say. Do you have any specific questions you don't have answers for already? You can paste on photos from a site like Flickr , PHotobucket, etc.

__________________
Dave Rafferty
Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?)
Lyrical Trumpet (Tokan)

Besson 609 Trumpet
1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet
1948 Besson cornet
1946 King Master Cornet
www.kalamazooconcertband.org

Indian

For years the Pro Conn horn was a 22B and they were one of the most popular Pro horns. It had a brass bell. The Conn 12B is the same horn but with a copper bell. The copper bell is called a Coprion bell. It is a seamless one piece bell that was made by electroplating pure copper onto a mandrell. These bells add volume and tonal qualities not available from other materials and manufacturing methods. The Coprion 12B is a wonderful horn and highly sought afetr by collectors of vintage horns. Especially collectors that want a quality built Pro level horn that plays and sounds great. This is a great horn but I would hesitate to start a new student out on it until they know how to properly care for a vintage horn, maybe once they had a couple years of playing and trumpet care under the belt.

__________________
Rob,
King Liberty SilverTone (3)
King Liberty (7) Super 20 (2)
Conn Vocabell 40A - 40B - 80A (6) - 81A (1) - 38A Victor (2) - 22B - 16B, 12B Coprion bell
Getzen Tone Balanced Super Deluxe
Holton French LeBlanc (1) - Al Hirt 550
Olds Studio (1) - Special (1)

veery715

Indian is correct - they are very fine horns. Here's a pic of mine:



He is also on the mark about it not being the best for a beginner, both from the horn's and the player's point of view. The horn would not be fully appreciated by a starter and might be mistreated, and it also doesn't offer the qualities one would look for in a beginner horn - durability and ease of blow at the expense of intonation.

Save it for when it will be appreciated and start the youngster on a Yammie 23xx or such. Or clean it up and sell it.

veery

a3tripod

Excellent looking specimen! Thanks for the info, though I'm a little unsure how you determine that it is in fact a Coprion bell. Is that indicative of the C.G. engraving, or the year it was made? It seemed to me that there were a variety of materials being used for bell fabrication...which is why I was cautious to say it "is" Coprion.

As for being a beginner's trumpet, I'd have to agree that (knowing what I know now) this should be kept in the hands of a responsible adult. Unfortunately, this trumpet has been used for nearly as long as it has existed...
It was my first (and only) trumpet, as was it my dad's and his brother's. It's got some ding and dents in it (though the bell is in good shape) through those years of use.

Having never had any other trumpet, I'm curious why learning on a vintage trumpet is less than ideal for beginners (excluding considerations of care and maintenance). I don't recall being particularly challenged by it's intonation, sound quality, or playability. In fact I love using the original Conn 4C mouthpiece, as opposed to everyone in band using a 7C mouthpiece.

On another note, should I look into having the dings and dents repaired on the brass parts of the horn? I don't really want to negatively effect sound quality, or value (though I'd never sell it).

I really need to get some pictures up for you guys.

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm genuinely interested, and you guys/gals really know your stuff!

veery715

12Bs were all* coprion. Conn's name for electro-depostion of copper on a mandrel. Your trumpet probably has a darker color to the old lacquer over the copper - which gives it a different appearance than my horn which has been stripped.

If the dings aren't significant they won't affect play. Restoring is a matter of whether you want to maintain collector value or make it more playable. They are great horns but not that prized to make a big difference. Originals is great shape might sell for $700-900. Mine had most lacquer gone and went (well, came) for under $400. IMO, it is worth more for how it plays than anything else. Which is wonderfully. It isn't my goto horn because it is as old as me - 62, and I want it (and me) to stay undented.

Most beginner horns are built around a durablilty/playability compromise. Many are designed with more resistance to blow to compensate for undeveloped chops. The 12B won't hold anyone back, IMO, but might get mangled - copper is softer than brass. The 4C is a good fit. Play it. If YOU are playing it you need another horn for the kid anyway.


*possibly one or two escaped the factory with brass bells due to parts mixup.

Indian

I agree with Verry. Most beginers start pout on a cornet and then move to a student trumpet and then on to a horn like the 12B. Most student horns take a little less air a but more pressure. This makes it a little easier for first time players. I learned on a cornet and then moved up to a trumpet.

As Veery said all 12Bs had a Coprion bell. Here is the Conn Loyalist 12B link The Conn Loyalist .

__________________
Rob,
King Liberty SilverTone (3)
King Liberty (7) Super 20 (2)
Conn Vocabell 40A - 40B - 80A (6) - 81A (1) - 38A Victor (2) - 22B - 16B, 12B Coprion bell
Getzen Tone Balanced Super Deluxe
Holton French LeBlanc (1) - Al Hirt 550
Olds Studio (1) - Special (1)

a3tripod

How cool is this?! Thank you all so much for shedding some light on my little mystery.

I will post up some pictures tonight, and you can judge for yourself if some repair is necessary. I personally am not a pro musician, and can't tell if the sound quality is hindered. Hopefully its condition won't offend too many of you.

I play for fun and for the kids (ages 4 and 1). When my chops get weary, I pull out the guitar and hack on that too :).

veery715

Me too - weary chops mean piano, guitar, vibes. Plenty of body parts to go around!

I think my 12B is the prettiest horn I have ever had. And what a core! Just played Stardust and man, oh man......

veery

a3tripod

Ok. I'm not exactly getting the pictures to work. Let's try the direct link?



Album is below:
http://picasaweb.google.com/PaypalRu...08200024768162