Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet

ReynoldsC · 02-28-2010, 09:59 PM

I have only been a member for a short time and have used the information on TrumpetMaster.com and Horn-u-copia.com that others listed before me. It is my time to give back to the community and list my experience in cleaning and restoring my 1918-1920 York "Model 65, High & Low Pitch, A/Bb Rotary Valve" Trumpet s/n 59109. Here are the pictures of my finished project. http://webpages.charter.net/slsk-sebaugh/York%20Trumpet

After acquiring the trumpet on eBay, my search

began for looking for the best way to clean the silver plate and gold plate, and to restore the valves to make this horn a main player. For about a month, I read everything on TrumpetMaster.com and Horn-u-copia.com that I could get my hands on. I also used metal smithing sites to help me with the silver and gold plate cleaning and used my 25+ years in antique restoration (hobbyist not job). What I have learned from before, is that you can not do enough research, especially, if it could cost you the destruction of an antique.

Here is the method I used on my trumpet.

FIRST I gave the trumpet a good bath in dishwashing soap and warm water, and this was to remove all the dirt, oils, and greases from the horn. The valves I cleaned in mineral spirits (paint thinner) to remove all the oils and built up varnishes from all those years of playing (do not put the pearl valve caps in there; clean them with a non-abrasive light silver polish). I would advise not to use paint stripper to clean the valves because it can be too harsh

(my experience with other antiques). As a side note freeing up, storing, or oiling a trumpet with WD 40 is a BIG NO NO, because it leaves behind varnish deposits (I have seen this too many times when I repaired clocks. People oil them with WD 40 and in a month later they will not run because of the gummy varnish

).

NEXT I put the valves aside and worked on the trumpet body. I did not want to polish the trumpet to remove the tarnish with a metal polish or polish cloth, because that would remove some of the silver plate (little by little over time) and especially the gold plate. The gold plate is soft and repeated polishing will remove it. I used a bath of very warm water, aluminum foil, NON-IODIDE salt (pure salt only), and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). (NOTE: DO NOT use this cleaning method on lacquered horns. It can destroy the finish.

) In a non metal container (important), put the aluminum foil in the bottom (cover the bottom and use at least two sheets one on top of another). Then mix 1 teaspoon of the PURE salt (I used canning salt; it was pure NaCl) and 1 tablespoon of baking soda with one quart of very warm water. Do this to fill your container. Now I put he trumpet in (my trumpet was touching the aluminum foil) and watched the solution clean it. This solution does not remove oils and grease, hence the reason we prewashed it with soap and water. What this solution is doing is removing the tarnish without removing the silver and gold plate and depositing the tarnish on the aluminum foil (I will spare everyone the chemistry lesson of balanced equations and sulfur ion exchange

). I noticed the horn getting cleaner and some dark spots developing. After 15 minutes I removed the horn and rinsed it off with warm water (You need to rinse it off very well). After rinsing and drying, I noticed the trumpet did not have any tarnish but a light film on it and some dark spots. The dark spots were where the silver plate was gone or really thin. The brass had a reaction to the solution but that was not a problem.

NOW I needed to get the film and dark spots off my trumpet. I used “Hagerty Silversmith Polish with R-22 Tarnish Preventative”. This was only to very lightly go over the trumpet to remove the film and to add some tarnish protection. Also it removed the dark spots. I had to apply some pressure to the dark spots but they were removed. How I did this was to totally dampen a cotton cloth (do not goop it on the horn) with the polish and lightly go over the trumpet and then lightly wipe it off. That made the trumpet very bright and shiny as seen in the pictures. It also did not hurt the gold plate, but remember the gold plate is much softer than the silver plate. DO NOT use a STORE bought silver polish cloth . It will leave dark material in the silver plate if the plate is rough from all those years of use (my mistake

after I started play this horn and tried to wipe my finger prints off).

NOW that the body of the trumpet was cleaned and polished, I started on the valves. After cleaning them with the mineral spirits, I polished them with the same metal polish I used before. I did up and down strokes to clean out the dirt from the many years of scratches and did not go around and around the valves to cross scratch them. I then rinsed them with the mineral spirits again to make sure they were clean. I then rebuilt the valves with new valve pads and springs that I got from my local music shop. The new valve pads were a synthetic material that replaces the felts and corks that were normally used. I got two sets of spring that fit; Bach and King and tried them both out for feel. I liked the Bach better; the King had a stiffer feel but still worked. When I put the valve pads on, the valves stems had marks on them so I got the right height and depth for the valve travel. I also did a visual check to make sure the valve travel was correct (some trumpet valves are not marked for height and depth, so a visual check is the only way to confirm proper valve travel). I did not have to do any work on the valve guides. There was some wear but not bad. The valves were also tight so I did not have to do any work there.

NEXT I put everything together. The valves (especially the 3rd valve) had some pitting. The 3rd valve had far more the worst pitting because of the lack of a spit valve. But that was the design of the trumpet and the people

before me that did not clean out the 3rd valve slide each time the trumpet was played. I had to find a valve oil to work with the older valves and I experimented with “Hetman Synthetic #2 and #3 (classic) Valve Oil”. The valves worked on both of the oils but the #3 oil gave me a better feel. The #3 oil is suppose to be for valves with a little more wear (a bigger oil molecule not a thicker oil from the information I was given).
MY 1918-1920 York "Model 65, High & Low Pitch, A/Bb Rotary Valve" Trumpet s/n 59109 plays great and has a bright old jazzy (Dixieland) sound (more in the mid to upper ranges).

This is my first horn restoration and I was pleased with the results. Now, I can not guarantee the same results with using this procedure on every horn, but several people have had success according to the internet (and we all know that everything on the internet is true

). But in my experience you should cross reference any advice or a procedure, especially in my experience with antique restoration. A special thanks

to all the people who have help me and to TrumpetMaster.com and Horn-u-copia.com.

ComeBackKid · 02-28-2010, 11:11 PM

Wow. It looks very nice. From your description, it sounds like you did all the right things. The Aluminum foil/salt/bicarb bath has been used by others here (including me) and it is very effective. I'm sure oldlou will have some comments on this, too.

oldlou · 02-28-2010, 11:17 PM

I am personally very pleased to see that old 'closet queen' come out. Bill Johnson would roll over in his grave about that fine old beauty. Congratulations on your fine restoration.

OLDLOU>>

ReynoldsC · 03-01-2010, 11:12 PM

ComeBackKid & oldlou thanks for the great comments they are greatly appreciated. In one of the threads, I believe there was a statement by "ComeBackKid" about collecting all these nuggets of information we are gathering and posting, and start placing them in general subject categories (ie horn cleaning, horn silver plate cleaning, ect. ect.). That would make searching for information easier (but we all still need to use the search). So I got the idea of this thread to post a case study of my horn restoration, and to show and personally use what I though was the best ideas and information I had found. I tried to gather all the "nuggets" I used from start to finish, and hopefully give some direction and inspiration to others.
To Others that are reading this: Here are other good threads;
http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140...net-49656.html (Cleaning a vintage silver cornet...)

http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f131...d-48730-2.html (Seeking Suggestions for Cleaning/Protecting Silver Plated Trumpet)

ComeBackKid · 03-02-2010, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReynoldsC

...So I got the idea of this thread to post a case study of my horn restoration, and to show and personally use what I though was the best ideas and information I had found. I tried to gather all the "nuggets" I used from start to finish, and hopefully give some direction and inspiration to others...

Great idea. This is a good start. However, as a general observation, many of the topics generate heated debate which can lead the discussion in many strange directions. So, it is a bit hard to keep some things on a constant track. But, at least this topic has been hashed out before so I think there may be less argument about it. We'll see.

harleyt26 · 03-07-2010, 08:42 AM

It seems that this method of cleaning is the safest way for cleaning silver and gold plating but not a laquer finish. I followed the links supplied and found the galvanic chart and a couple of pictures of horns this had been successfully followed on. I am not a chemist or metalurgist so if someone would please help with a question. Is this method good or not for a nickel plated horn? The chart says nickel is active,what does that mean? Does that mean nickel will will tarnish or not when plated on brass? My nickel plated horn is tarnished. On the chart silver has nothing following it but it certainly tarnishes also. The tarnish on my nickel horn closely resembles the black tarnish on my silver horns. In the link one of the horns pictured appears to be nickel plated but the poster does not state it.
I am sorry to be dragging on this topic a few seem to be so weary of. It is difficult to figure out how to research a subject on this forum because the search feature seems to only work with one word. The responses to a search are very vague and usually don't pull up the intended results. But there is a great deal of knowlege here that us less experienced really appreciate. Just point us in the right direction,you might be saving a very collectible horn from certain destruction.
Thak you,
Tom Hodges

oldlou · 03-07-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyt26

It seems that this method of cleaning is the safest way for cleaning silver and gold plating but not a laquer finish. I followed the links supplied and found the galvanic chart and a couple of pictures of horns this had been successfully followed on. I am not a chemist or metalurgist so if someone would please help with a question. Is this method good or not for a nickel plated horn? The chart says nickel is active,what does that mean? Does that mean nickel will will tarnish or not when plated on brass? My nickel plated horn is tarnished. On the chart silver has nothing following it but it certainly tarnishes also. The tarnish on my nickel horn closely resembles the black tarnish on my silver horns. In the link one of the horns pictured appears to be nickel plated but the poster does not state it.
I am sorry to be dragging on this topic a few seem to be so weary of. It is difficult to figure out how to research a subject on this forum because the search feature seems to only work with one word. The responses to a search are very vague and usually don't pull up the intended results. But there is a great deal of knowlege here that us less experienced really appreciate. Just point us in the right direction,you might be saving a very collectible horn from certain destruction.
Thak you,
Tom Hodges

For the sake of the safety of your horn we need to know what its make and model is. As an example, Conn made many of their Connstelation trumpets and cornets with nickel plating that was then coated with lacquer. Olds and Holton and perhaps others, used solid nickel for their bell flares on selected models. Reynolds used a full black nickel plating on one model and many of their top models had heavy nickel silver reinforcements at high wear areas. Many others used nickel plating that was then lacquered on their slides for strictly cosmetic reasons. Still others nickel plated the inner slide tubings to reduce wear and sticktion. If yours is a lacquer coated nickel horn it requires different cleaning than nickel silver.

OLDLOU>>

harleyt26 · 03-07-2010, 02:40 PM

I just heard from Mrs.Derksen at Connloyalist,She believes it to be a 1910 Conn Perfected Wonder. It has a few dents and needs corks and felts. It has a geat tone the way is is but I will send it in to the repair shop in a week or so to get it all ready for playing. I will attempt to attach a couple of pictures but it appears to be nickel plated except the bell end and inside the bell. there is no model name engraved on it only made by CG Conn in Elkhart Ind..
It is a small bore and has a S above the serial number to identify the bore as small. The vlaves and compression are very good and the case is in really good condition besides the handle is gone. And all the extra slides are present including the lyre and mute. The cleaning rod was missing but I have ordered a replacement rod and case handle.

oldlou · 03-07-2010, 10:53 PM

That is silver plate, not nickel. It can be cleaned by the same method used by the O.P..

OLDLOU>>

harleyt26 · 03-08-2010, 08:55 PM

How about the brass/gold washed bell inside and out? Will that be safe also?

Thanks for helping me with this.

Tom Hodges

02-28-2010, 09:59 PM	#1
ReynoldsC New Friend Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Jackson, Missouri Posts: 22	Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet I have only been a member for a short time and have used the information on TrumpetMaster.com and Horn-u-copia.com that others listed before me. It is my time to give back to the community and list my experience in cleaning and restoring my 1918-1920 York "Model 65, High & Low Pitch, A/Bb Rotary Valve" Trumpet s/n 59109. Here are the pictures of my finished project. http://webpages.charter.net/slsk-sebaugh/York%20Trumpet After acquiring the trumpet on eBay, my search began for looking for the best way to clean the silver plate and gold plate, and to restore the valves to make this horn a main player. For about a month, I read everything on TrumpetMaster.com and Horn-u-copia.com that I could get my hands on. I also used metal smithing sites to help me with the silver and gold plate cleaning and used my 25+ years in antique restoration (hobbyist not job). What I have learned from before, is that you can not do enough research, especially, if it could cost you the destruction of an antique. Here is the method I used on my trumpet. FIRST I gave the trumpet a good bath in dishwashing soap and warm water, and this was to remove all the dirt, oils, and greases from the horn. The valves I cleaned in mineral spirits (paint thinner) to remove all the oils and built up varnishes from all those years of playing (do not put the pearl valve caps in there; clean them with a non-abrasive light silver polish). I would advise not to use paint stripper to clean the valves because it can be too harsh (my experience with other antiques). As a side note freeing up, storing, or oiling a trumpet with WD 40 is a BIG NO NO, because it leaves behind varnish deposits (I have seen this too many times when I repaired clocks. People oil them with WD 40 and in a month later they will not run because of the gummy varnish). NEXT I put the valves aside and worked on the trumpet body. I did not want to polish the trumpet to remove the tarnish with a metal polish or polish cloth, because that would remove some of the silver plate (little by little over time) and especially the gold plate. The gold plate is soft and repeated polishing will remove it. I used a bath of very warm water, aluminum foil, NON-IODIDE salt (pure salt only), and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). (NOTE: DO NOT use this cleaning method on lacquered horns. It can destroy the finish.) In a non metal container (important), put the aluminum foil in the bottom (cover the bottom and use at least two sheets one on top of another). Then mix 1 teaspoon of the PURE salt (I used canning salt; it was pure NaCl) and 1 tablespoon of baking soda with one quart of very warm water. Do this to fill your container. Now I put he trumpet in (my trumpet was touching the aluminum foil) and watched the solution clean it. This solution does not remove oils and grease, hence the reason we prewashed it with soap and water. What this solution is doing is removing the tarnish without removing the silver and gold plate and depositing the tarnish on the aluminum foil (I will spare everyone the chemistry lesson of balanced equations and sulfur ion exchange ). I noticed the horn getting cleaner and some dark spots developing. After 15 minutes I removed the horn and rinsed it off with warm water (You need to rinse it off very well). After rinsing and drying, I noticed the trumpet did not have any tarnish but a light film on it and some dark spots. The dark spots were where the silver plate was gone or really thin. The brass had a reaction to the solution but that was not a problem. NOW I needed to get the film and dark spots off my trumpet. I used “Hagerty Silversmith Polish with R-22 Tarnish Preventative”. This was only to very lightly go over the trumpet to remove the film and to add some tarnish protection. Also it removed the dark spots. I had to apply some pressure to the dark spots but they were removed. How I did this was to totally dampen a cotton cloth (do not goop it on the horn) with the polish and lightly go over the trumpet and then lightly wipe it off. That made the trumpet very bright and shiny as seen in the pictures. It also did not hurt the gold plate, but remember the gold plate is much softer than the silver plate. DO NOT use a STORE bought silver polish cloth . It will leave dark material in the silver plate if the plate is rough from all those years of use (my mistake after I started play this horn and tried to wipe my finger prints off). NOW that the body of the trumpet was cleaned and polished, I started on the valves. After cleaning them with the mineral spirits, I polished them with the same metal polish I used before. I did up and down strokes to clean out the dirt from the many years of scratches and did not go around and around the valves to cross scratch them. I then rinsed them with the mineral spirits again to make sure they were clean. I then rebuilt the valves with new valve pads and springs that I got from my local music shop. The new valve pads were a synthetic material that replaces the felts and corks that were normally used. I got two sets of spring that fit; Bach and King and tried them both out for feel. I liked the Bach better; the King had a stiffer feel but still worked. When I put the valve pads on, the valves stems had marks on them so I got the right height and depth for the valve travel. I also did a visual check to make sure the valve travel was correct (some trumpet valves are not marked for height and depth, so a visual check is the only way to confirm proper valve travel). I did not have to do any work on the valve guides. There was some wear but not bad. The valves were also tight so I did not have to do any work there. NEXT I put everything together. The valves (especially the 3rd valve) had some pitting. The 3rd valve had far more the worst pitting because of the lack of a spit valve. But that was the design of the trumpet and the people before me that did not clean out the 3rd valve slide each time the trumpet was played. I had to find a valve oil to work with the older valves and I experimented with “Hetman Synthetic #2 and #3 (classic) Valve Oil”. The valves worked on both of the oils but the #3 oil gave me a better feel. The #3 oil is suppose to be for valves with a little more wear (a bigger oil molecule not a thicker oil from the information I was given). MY 1918-1920 York "Model 65, High & Low Pitch, A/Bb Rotary Valve" Trumpet s/n 59109 plays great and has a bright old jazzy (Dixieland) sound (more in the mid to upper ranges). This is my first horn restoration and I was pleased with the results. Now, I can not guarantee the same results with using this procedure on every horn, but several people have had success according to the internet (and we all know that everything on the internet is true ). But in my experience you should cross reference any advice or a procedure, especially in my experience with antique restoration. A special thanks to all the people who have help me and to TrumpetMaster.com and Horn-u-copia.com. __________________ ReynoldsC TRUMPETS 1974 Reynolds "Contempora" Trumpet 1918-1920 York "Model 65" Trumpet, High & Low Pitch, A/Bb Rotary Valve 1948 York "Feather Touch Master" Long Cornet 1947 York "Feather Touch Master" Trumpet QUOTE: Sometimes good things happen and we don't even try, so we call it luck. In other words, "Even a blind hog can find an acorn every once in a while".

03-01-2010, 11:12 PM	#4
ReynoldsC New Friend Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Jackson, Missouri Posts: 22	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet ComeBackKid & oldlou thanks for the great comments they are greatly appreciated. In one of the threads, I believe there was a statement by "ComeBackKid" about collecting all these nuggets of information we are gathering and posting, and start placing them in general subject categories (ie horn cleaning, horn silver plate cleaning, ect. ect.). That would make searching for information easier (but we all still need to use the search). So I got the idea of this thread to post a case study of my horn restoration, and to show and personally use what I though was the best ideas and information I had found. I tried to gather all the "nuggets" I used from start to finish, and hopefully give some direction and inspiration to others. To Others that are reading this: Here are other good threads; http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140...net-49656.html (Cleaning a vintage silver cornet...) http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f131...d-48730-2.html (Seeking Suggestions for Cleaning/Protecting Silver Plated Trumpet) __________________ ReynoldsC TRUMPETS 1974 Reynolds "Contempora" Trumpet 1918-1920 York "Model 65" Trumpet, High & Low Pitch, A/Bb Rotary Valve 1948 York "Feather Touch Master" Long Cornet 1947 York "Feather Touch Master" Trumpet QUOTE: Sometimes good things happen and we don't even try, so we call it luck. In other words, "Even a blind hog can find an acorn every once in a while". Last edited by ReynoldsC; 03-08-2010 at 03:58 PM.

03-07-2010, 08:42 AM	#6
harleyt26 Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Summerfield,Fl. Posts: 90	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet It seems that this method of cleaning is the safest way for cleaning silver and gold plating but not a laquer finish. I followed the links supplied and found the galvanic chart and a couple of pictures of horns this had been successfully followed on. I am not a chemist or metalurgist so if someone would please help with a question. Is this method good or not for a nickel plated horn? The chart says nickel is active,what does that mean? Does that mean nickel will will tarnish or not when plated on brass? My nickel plated horn is tarnished. On the chart silver has nothing following it but it certainly tarnishes also. The tarnish on my nickel horn closely resembles the black tarnish on my silver horns. In the link one of the horns pictured appears to be nickel plated but the poster does not state it. I am sorry to be dragging on this topic a few seem to be so weary of. It is difficult to figure out how to research a subject on this forum because the search feature seems to only work with one word. The responses to a search are very vague and usually don't pull up the intended results. But there is a great deal of knowlege here that us less experienced really appreciate. Just point us in the right direction,you might be saving a very collectible horn from certain destruction. Thak you, Tom Hodges

03-07-2010, 02:40 PM	#8
harleyt26 Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Summerfield,Fl. Posts: 90	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet I just heard from Mrs.Derksen at Connloyalist,She believes it to be a 1910 Conn Perfected Wonder. It has a few dents and needs corks and felts. It has a geat tone the way is is but I will send it in to the repair shop in a week or so to get it all ready for playing. I will attempt to attach a couple of pictures but it appears to be nickel plated except the bell end and inside the bell. there is no model name engraved on it only made by CG Conn in Elkhart Ind.. It is a small bore and has a S above the serial number to identify the bore as small. The vlaves and compression are very good and the case is in really good condition besides the handle is gone. And all the extra slides are present including the lyre and mute. The cleaning rod was missing but I have ordered a replacement rod and case handle.

03-07-2010, 10:53 PM	#9
oldlou Forte User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 1,532	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet That is silver plate, not nickel. It can be cleaned by the same method used by the O.P.. OLDLOU>> __________________ Couturier trumpet York Wizard by Couturier cornet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet Conn Concert Grand Cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Conn New World Symphony trumpet Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

02-28-2010, 11:11 PM	#2
ComeBackKid Forte User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 2,133	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet Wow. It looks very nice. From your description, it sounds like you did all the right things. The Aluminum foil/salt/bicarb bath has been used by others here (including me) and it is very effective. I'm sure oldlou will have some comments on this, too. __________________ Come-Back Kid - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Selmer Invicta London (1956) Olds Recording (1958) Olds Super (1951, 1963, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969) Olds SuperStar (1971) Olds Studio (1955,1970) Olds Special (1951, 1956, 1958, 1960, 1962) Olds Ambassador (a few: 1953-1979) Andreas Eastman (new) (+Conn Director, King Cleveland, Holton Collegiate, Blessing Accord, York, Yamaha, Getzen, Amati, Revelle, Bundy, Alcazar)

02-28-2010, 11:17 PM	#3
oldlou Forte User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 1,532	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet I am personally very pleased to see that old 'closet queen' come out. Bill Johnson would roll over in his grave about that fine old beauty. Congratulations on your fine restoration. OLDLOU>> __________________ Couturier trumpet York Wizard by Couturier cornet York Master Model trumpet York Elite trumpet York Airflow cornet Conn Concert Grand Cornet King Liberty trumpet Reynolds Professional cornet Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet Conn New World Symphony trumpet Olds Special cornet Los Angeles B&H Sovereign cornet G.R.Band Instr. cornet Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet Many others no room to list

03-08-2010, 08:55 PM	#10
harleyt26 Pianissimo User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Summerfield,Fl. Posts: 90	Re: Cleaning the Finish & Restoration of a Silver & Gold Plated York Trumpet How about the brass/gold washed bell inside and out? Will that be safe also? Thanks for helping me with this. Tom Hodges

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