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Vintage Trumpets / Cornets Discuss Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn??? in the Equipment forums; I'm trying to do a bit of research on the VERY vintage Cleveland line of trumpets prior to the H.N. ...
  1. #1
    Mezzo Piano User Osren's Avatar
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    Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    I'm trying to do a bit of research on the VERY vintage Cleveland line of trumpets prior to the H.N. White take over (or atleast prior to putting the WHITE name on them)

    I'm not finding all that much info, so I once again defer to the "experts" :)

    What as the quality and the relative value of these beasts? Specificly the 603 model in say the 1925-1935 period

    Say something that looks like this.... I don't KNOW if this is a model 603... but the few similar pictures I can find to it some of them say it is... but I could be TOTALLY wrong (wouldn't be the first time... today....)



    As always.. thanks to all of you that let me entertain my never ending vintage trumpet questions...
    Last edited by Osren; 12-18-2011 at 02:49 AM.
    ____
    Soren

    1990 Getzen Eterna 700 Trumpet
    1958 Conn 28A Connstellation Long Cornet
    1945 Buescher LP 225 Trumpet
    1948 Olds Studio Trumpet
    Triebert Moderne / Couesnon Flugelhorn
    ~Loyalist Websites~
    "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality: there is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury; then there's the dark side...." --Michael Stewart, DMA

  2. #2
    Mezzo Piano User Osren's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    I will field this one.... take a look at this THREAD... "Anyone ever hear of Hernals?" (Anyone ever hear of Hernals?)
    ____
    Soren

    1990 Getzen Eterna 700 Trumpet
    1958 Conn 28A Connstellation Long Cornet
    1945 Buescher LP 225 Trumpet
    1948 Olds Studio Trumpet
    Triebert Moderne / Couesnon Flugelhorn
    ~Loyalist Websites~
    "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality: there is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury; then there's the dark side...." --Michael Stewart, DMA

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    Mezzo Piano User Osren's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    Thanx Osren... you are so informed... and smart... and dare I say Handsome!?!?
    ____
    Soren

    1990 Getzen Eterna 700 Trumpet
    1958 Conn 28A Connstellation Long Cornet
    1945 Buescher LP 225 Trumpet
    1948 Olds Studio Trumpet
    Triebert Moderne / Couesnon Flugelhorn
    ~Loyalist Websites~
    "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality: there is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury; then there's the dark side...." --Michael Stewart, DMA

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    Forte User Silversorcerer's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    That one appears to be from the same era as my Greyhound which has a very similar case (didn't I say that before?) Anyway, let me guess;- the serial number has a C preceding the number, has 5 digits and nowhere on it is there a mention of the HN White company, but the mouthpiece is mysteriously close to a White 32 trumpet piece (dare I say identical?) except with no writing anywhere on it? The price list on the HN White site indicates that this was a good bit less expensive than a Liberty of similar vintage. The case style and everything is shown there. I think the other Cleveland you scored was older and probably one of the ones not made by White. I am suspicious that these with the C numbers are made by White before the buyout.

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    Forte User Silversorcerer's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???


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    Forte User acarcido's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    The "Clevland" made instruments were made as a separate line from the "H N White Co". They where made that way so that educators and students would be able to afford them simular to the way CG Conn had the Pan Am line of instruments before the came up with the director line instruments.
    Art C
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    1964 H. N. White King Super 20 model 1049S
    1976 King Silver Flair (Custom engraved)

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    Forte User Silversorcerer's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    Quote Originally Posted by acarcido View Post
    The "Clevland" made instruments were made as a separate line from the "H N White Co". They where made that way so that educators and students would be able to afford them simular to the way CG Conn had the Pan Am line of instruments before the came up with the director line instruments.
    That was a bit later. The early Cleveland Musical Instrument Company was separate from White and were sold separately. It appears that acquisition happened in two steps, first manufacturing, then ownership of the name and entire company by White. The early models appear to be professional grade instruments.

  8. #8
    Mezzo Piano User Osren's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    Ok.. this baby finally came in and I've had a chance to give it a warm bath and hit it with a silver polishing cloth..

    It LOOKS like the 603 model shown in the ads above but I did find the number 608 on the main tuning slide (so now I'm a little confused)-

    Before Cleaning-



    After Cleaning-


    The trumpet is BEAUTIFUL... I don't see any major dents, dings, scratches, or anything else that would make me cringe... it is only GLOSSY Silver in a few areas - around the mouthpiece receiver, and some highlights on the slides and the bell "engraving" itself is polished silver. The rest of the horn is more of a feathered or brushed silver look. So it's NOT as shiny, but it looks VERY cool!



    The Bell is not a gorgeous as say a King SilverFlair, but I really like it's old time look...


    And did I mention that the inside of the bell is GOLD! Sweeeeet.....


    Here's a shot of the Serial number (prior to the bath and polishing) this number makes it a 1935


    At first, I couldn't get ANY of the slides to move - I was a little bit worried, but figured that AGE was the cause. After soaking it in the warm bath, I was able to remove all slides EXCEPT the main tuning slide. I also had difficulty removing one of the bottom Valve Caps... I tried all sorts of VERY mild methods to get this puppy off. NOTHING was working until after the bath when it was completely dry, I put a few drops of Aisyn Valve and Slide oil on it, within 5 seconds it unscrewed as if it was perfectly normal. Wow, I was impressed.

    I have tried the same trick with the main tuning slide, but that sucker still won't budge. I'm a BIT confused with it - I must admit. This is the first time I have experienced a "screw down" part on the slide itself. (see picture below) I also need to replace a few corks and felts on it.. but that is to be expected.



    If you look on the bottom portion of the slide just to the LEFT of the brace, you can see the little screw on section. I assume this was Cleveland's method for holding the tuning side in... much the same was Conn put on screw adjuster on many of their old horns back in the day. I can turn the screw section quite easily... but no matter what position I put it in, I cannot seem to get the slide to come out.

    I paid like $150 for this trumpet, and I am impressed with it thus far. Tonight I played a few scales and some of the little diddies I have memorized and it played and responded nicely. Valves are NOTHING like my Eterna 700, but they have GREAT compression and the trumpet makes a nice BRIGHT sound, similar to my Conn 22b (in the next few days, I will play them side by side and compare them more).

    I still have MORE cleaning to do on the Cleveland. I would love to hear more about these vintage Clevelands.. other Superior models, the Greyhound, the Toreador... what are YOUR impressions of yours?
    Silversorcerer and fastory like this.
    ____
    Soren

    1990 Getzen Eterna 700 Trumpet
    1958 Conn 28A Connstellation Long Cornet
    1945 Buescher LP 225 Trumpet
    1948 Olds Studio Trumpet
    Triebert Moderne / Couesnon Flugelhorn
    ~Loyalist Websites~
    "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality: there is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury; then there's the dark side...." --Michael Stewart, DMA

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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    I suspect that type of bore on the horn would have a very bright blatty tone suited for dixie/nawlins sounds. Do you play the horn with a vintage mouthpiece? I could have bought a King Silvertone but passed and got an Edwards for only 100$ more...I think I made the right choice.

  10. #10
    Mezzo Piano User Osren's Avatar
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    Re: Cleveland Silver Trumpet 603 PRE H.N. White buyout - good horn???

    It came with a mouthpiece... the ONLY markings on it are "32" --- it is definately a vintage mouthpiece and I believe it is most likely the original mouthpiece that came with the trumpet (but I am not 100% on that)

    I am thinking it is an unmarked H.N. White 6032 mouthpiece....
    ____
    Soren

    1990 Getzen Eterna 700 Trumpet
    1958 Conn 28A Connstellation Long Cornet
    1945 Buescher LP 225 Trumpet
    1948 Olds Studio Trumpet
    Triebert Moderne / Couesnon Flugelhorn
    ~Loyalist Websites~
    "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality: there is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury; then there's the dark side...." --Michael Stewart, DMA

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