Toobz

I'm stumped. I'm hoping some of our expert TMer's can shed some light on this.

I bought a 81A (80A with the extra 4 slides to make it both HP\LP) Victor Cornet a few months back. The Conn Loyalist describes the 80A as a #2 1/2 Bore (.484) horn. My serial number dates it to 1917. Mine does have the auto tuning mechanism too.

Here's the problem. I finally got around to measuring the bore last night. It's a #2 (.468) bore. They also list the 4A as the medium bore #2 (.468) version of the 80A. However, there is no mention of the 4A as having the HP\LP slide option. Also, the 4A wasn't supposed to start production until 1926. (9 years later than my serial # suggests )

Can anyone make some sense of this ? I already sent an email to the Conn Loyalist, and I'm waiting for their answer.
Does anyone else out there own or have owned a Victor Cornet with a #2 bore ?

One other interesting bit of info about this horn. It's a gold plated horn, but has just the usual engraving. Every Gold plated horn I've seen before had more ornate engraving.
Has anyone else seen a gold plated Conn with just the usual engraving ?

screamingmorris

"#2 Bore New Wonder in Bb and A with mechanism
Becomes 80A Victor - 1915"
The Conn Loyalist

So how can a 1915 cornet eventually become tha Conn 80A, if the Conn 80A began in 1914?

It's a shame that for the first many years Conn did not stamp model numbers on their instruments.

Plus, the list of the old instruments and their specifications is so incomplete now, some lost to history.

- Morris

Toobz

It is confusing ! Thankfully we have sites like the Conn Loyalist.
I can't imagine how much more frustrating it would be without these
sites that document these great vintage horns.

screamingmorris

Let us know if Christine of Conn Loyalist is able to provide some info on the matter.

BTW, if some of the info in Conn Loyalist is contradictory (as I showed above), Christine herself acknowledges in some places there that the available records / documents form Conn and other sources are sometimes contradictory.
So I hope Christine didn't think I was criticizing her site. She gathers what little information is available on very old instruments, some of it information which she acknowledges is contradictory, and she distills it down into the best summary available anywhere.

- Morris

Toobz

I think anyone that has spent time researching older horns would recognize your frustration . Pointing out errors and discrepancies is part of the process. Hopefully, by examining these issues, we can someday sort these out. I like to believe that Christine understands how you feel. Most likely as someone who has herself, scratched her head in confusion and frustration more times than we have.

screamingmorris

Christine has been frustrated by the fact that Conn did not bother to publicly state how the 1950's-1960's Connstellation bells were made or keep any company records on how they were made.
Since that is a relatively recent model, and Conn's most famous model, imagine how lacking the records are for older and more obscure Conn models.

This is not a slam against other loyalist sites for other brands, but is intended as a compliment to Christine:
The Conn Loyalist site is 100 times more informative than the loyalist sites for other brands, so I hope the other loyalist sites will keep working at improving their sites so that eventually all brands will have loyalist sites that are as informative as the Conn Loyalist Web site.

My only real complaint about the Conn Loyalist site is that some pages are hard to find from the home page, I can only find those pages because I stumbled across them in the past and bookmarked them.
For example, "Conn models by year and quality" is under "Articles" on the home page rather than being accessed from the "Conn trumpet page" or "Conn cornet page".
The present navigation of the site is good, but it could be even better.
But I know that Christine is presently working hard on the site, upgrading so much of the site that some links in the site are temporarily not working.

I don't think anyone fully appreciates just how difficult it must be for Christine to manage that huge Conn Loyalist Web site all by herself.
I only use the trumpet and cornet sections, which amount to a huge amount of information in a multitude of pages.
But the Conn Loyalist home page shows that Christine also has sections devoted to:

Conn Alto Horn and Tenor Horn Pages
Conn French Horn and Mellophone Pages
Conn Trombone Pages
Conn Baritone and Euphonium Pages
Conn Bass and Sousaphone Pages
Conn Bugle Pages
Conn Saxophone Pages
Conn Clarinet, Flute, Piccolo, Oboe and Bassoon Pages

Christine single-handedly running the entire Conn Loyalist Web site is like one person single-handedly running the entire Los Angeles Zoo.
I hope Christine has an heir apparent ready to take over the Conn Loyalist Web site some day, because that site is too valuable to just fall to the wayside 50 years from now.

- Morris

Toobz

Agreed ! Well said !

Indian

Yea CONN LOYALIST !!!!!!!!!!!! A GREAT BIG THANK YOU TO Christine !!!!!!

I have several 80A versions from 1917 to the fifties. They are great fun to play. I have an 81A and it is the large bore and very open to play. None of my other 80A cornets have a bore that large. The hourglass slide is a little different than my other horns but it could just be a period difference versus a model difference. The 81A is silver with lots of engraving and gold trim. Very fancy. The valves fell a little loose and some plating is missing but the horn plays very well and does not seem to have any appreciable air leakage. It came with an artist star on the middle valve and all the slides as well as a case and mute. The case had a spot to clamp the mute in. it also came with the cleaning rod two mouthpieces and metal oiler full of skunky valve oil. Unfortunately it was missing the mechanical pitch change mechanism. Alas !!!!

connloyalist

Thank you for the kind words.

About the 80A/81A: At one point a while ago I did have the 80A/81A New Wonder at a #2 bore and the 80A Victor at a #2 1/2. I then "corrected" that, but I may have to change it back.

As for the navigation, I am thinking about a way to improve things, but it is going to be a while yet.

Regards, Christine

screamingmorris

How many years has the Conn Loyalist Web site been in existence?
I vaguely remember reading something somewhere that gave me the impression that it has only been around approximately 5 years?

Was your site the first one to use "Loyalist" in the name?
That seems to be popular now, with "Holton Loyalist" and "Bach Loyalist" and "Schilke Loyalist", so I was wondering who started that "Loyalist" theme.

- Morris