Conn Cornet

Trumpet1Ohio · 06-30-2009, 07:34 AM

I teach trumpet out of my home. Last night one of my students fathers came in with his son and asked me if I'd be interested in an old Conn Cornet/ He claims it is a Perfected Wonder. He has an info sheet describing the horn and I think he's correct in the identification of the horn. It has a broken solder joint in the lead pipe with tape around it and the horn is heavily tarnished. I cleaned up the bell and it's beautiful. He wants to sell it and wants me to make him an offer. Any idea what this horn would be worth? It has the original case. 4 mouthpieces, a small straight mute and several additional slides.

I'm clueless when it comes to old cornets, so looking for direction.

Thanks

Fatso DiMARTINo · 06-30-2009, 08:12 AM

Hi, Ken, checking the serial number online will confirm. THE source for Conn brass info is... The Conn Loyalist

I'd offer $50, as you'll be spending for repairs. $50 is kind of low-balling, but if he accepts, you'll have gotten a deal. If he doesn't, then $50 is a starting point that could get you a good deal when all's said and done. Also, about that small straight mute, if it's a Conn and silver plated, and resembles a doorknob, you can maybe get your investment back by selling that mute alone (although of course the overall value of the cornet will decrease if it is missing the original Conn mute). I just sold one of those Conn mutes on eBay. To my surprise, it fetched $100.

By the way, I currently have only one old time cornet. It's a York Long Model cornet from around 1913. And its sound is like nothing I've ever played.

Indian · 06-30-2009, 11:25 AM

I am not sure but I thought someof these were High Pitch not Low Pitch. This could make a difference if playing in bands with newer horns. Still a very cool old horn.

operagost · 06-30-2009, 02:47 PM

He mentioned it has the original case and several slides, so it probably has both the high and low pitch sets.

Fatso DiMARTINo · 06-30-2009, 07:06 PM

May I just say, high and low pitch are very much misunderstood. I may also be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure low pitch simply meant standard A-440. I've never seen "HP" stamped on an instrument but have commonly seen "LP" stamped. Only horns designated as high pitch will have incompatibility issues with modern instruments.

Also, the different slides are for converting to different keys, most popularly to C and to A, a deeper, darker sound. The horns themselves, not the slides, are either low or high pitched.

Another comment on high / low pitch... I've known ill-informed repair personnel who have advised players not to buy low (standard A-440) but to go with HP, thinking HP was standard pitch!

MFfan · 06-30-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatso DiMARTINo

May I just say, high and low pitch are very much misunderstood. I may also be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure high pitch simply meant standard A-440. I've never seen "HP" stamped on an instrument but have commonly seen "LP" stamped. Only horns designated as low pitch will have incompatibility issues with modern instruments.

Also, the different slides are for converting to different keys, most popularly to C and to A, a deeper, darker sound. The horns themselves, not the slides, are either low or high pitched.

One other observation, that cornet is a modern-era cornet, definately A-440.

Another comment on high / low pitch... I've known ill-informed repair personnel who have advised players not to buy high (standard A-440) but to go with LP, thinking LP was standard pitch!

I'll have to disagree with you on that . My understanding that A-440 is LP, and HP was several centimes higher , A452. Glad yours is a A-440 model.
Woodwind instruments and their history - Google Books

This article has discussion of the subject. My Besson Cornet has LP stamped on the bell and is a A-440 instrument and has no problem being compatible. They made HP instrument as late as 1960 for the English traditional market.

Fatso DiMARTINo · 06-30-2009, 08:59 PM

MFfan...yes, yes, that's it! I was confused there momentarily; had it backwards Yes, LP was 440. The techs who steered people away from low pitch instruments were ill-informed in thinking LP meant a pitch below standard 440. Yes, the HP horns are the horns incompatibile at 452. I'll revise. Thank you. And that's a great link you posted, historically and thoroughly explaining not only high and low pitch but other pitch levels that once were used for instrumets.

Woodwind instruments and their history - Google Books

Trumpet1Ohio · 06-30-2009, 09:08 PM

Still not sure if I want to keep this horn, spend a bunch of time and a bit of money fixing it up. It sounds like if I get it cleaned, polished and repaired it will be worth $200-$300 at the most. I'm thinking about offering the guy a month of lessons for his son. So, at $20/lesson...$80.00.

Sound reasonable?

Fatso DiMARTINo · 06-30-2009, 09:10 PM

Oh, I hadn't thought of that! Great deal! Keep us posted, will ya? And I'm not sure if you've played old cornets, but I'm guessing you'll keep it afterall. Some may say, there's little difference in the tone of trumpet and cornet, but to others, sonically they are two vastly different instruments.

I think appreciation for cornet lies in the player's ability to first sense, feel and hear the tonal differences then exploit them to their full color. You'll have a good time trying those four mouthpieces and hearing how differently a cornet plays according to mpc type!

vntgbrslvr · 06-30-2009, 09:37 PM

I have several of these horns. Market value on E-bay right now is all over the place depending on condition and how complete the instrument is.

Most important thing to check on the horn is the valves. If there is lateral movement (and there problably is for an instrument from the early 1900's) your'e talking about at least $250 for a valve job to make it work well. Chances are it's a dual or triple key instrument b flat, a and possibly c.

50 bucks would be a sweet deal even for a parts horn.

Let me/us know what happens...take pics etc...

Brian

06-30-2009, 07:34 AM	#1
Trumpet1Ohio Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 182	Conn Cornet I teach trumpet out of my home. Last night one of my students fathers came in with his son and asked me if I'd be interested in an old Conn Cornet/ He claims it is a Perfected Wonder. He has an info sheet describing the horn and I think he's correct in the identification of the horn. It has a broken solder joint in the lead pipe with tape around it and the horn is heavily tarnished. I cleaned up the bell and it's beautiful. He wants to sell it and wants me to make him an offer. Any idea what this horn would be worth? It has the original case. 4 mouthpieces, a small straight mute and several additional slides. I'm clueless when it comes to old cornets, so looking for direction. Thanks __________________ Ken '59 Olds Super '76 Bach Model 37

06-30-2009, 08:12 AM	#2
Fatso DiMARTINo Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 78	Re: Conn Cornet Hi, Ken, checking the serial number online will confirm. THE source for Conn brass info is... The Conn Loyalist I'd offer $50, as you'll be spending for repairs. $50 is kind of low-balling, but if he accepts, you'll have gotten a deal. If he doesn't, then $50 is a starting point that could get you a good deal when all's said and done. Also, about that small straight mute, if it's a Conn and silver plated, and resembles a doorknob, you can maybe get your investment back by selling that mute alone (although of course the overall value of the cornet will decrease if it is missing the original Conn mute). I just sold one of those Conn mutes on eBay. To my surprise, it fetched $100. By the way, I currently have only one old time cornet. It's a York Long Model cornet from around 1913. And its sound is like nothing I've ever played. Last edited by Fatso DiMARTINo; 06-30-2009 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Caps

06-30-2009, 11:25 AM	#3
Indian Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 238	Re: Conn Cornet I am not sure but I thought someof these were High Pitch not Low Pitch. This could make a difference if playing in bands with newer horns. Still a very cool old horn. __________________ Rob, King Liberty SilverTone (3) King Liberty (7) Super 20 (2) Conn Vocabell 40A - 40B - 80A (6) - 81A (1) - 38A Victor (2) - 22B - 16B, 12B Coprion bell Getzen Tone Balanced Super Deluxe Holton French LeBlanc (1) - Al Hirt 550 Olds Studio (1) - Special (1)

06-30-2009, 02:47 PM	#4
operagost Piano User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Phoenixville, PA, USA Posts: 267	Re: Conn Cornet He mentioned it has the original case and several slides, so it probably has both the high and low pitch sets. __________________ 2006 Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS 1987 Conn 100B "Doc Severinsen" 1946 Conn 22B "New York Symphony"

06-30-2009, 07:06 PM	#5
Fatso DiMARTINo Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 78	Re: Conn Cornet May I just say, high and low pitch are very much misunderstood. I may also be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure low pitch simply meant standard A-440. I've never seen "HP" stamped on an instrument but have commonly seen "LP" stamped. Only horns designated as high pitch will have incompatibility issues with modern instruments. Also, the different slides are for converting to different keys, most popularly to C and to A, a deeper, darker sound. The horns themselves, not the slides, are either low or high pitched. Another comment on high / low pitch... I've known ill-informed repair personnel who have advised players not to buy low (standard A-440) but to go with HP, thinking HP was standard pitch! Last edited by Fatso DiMARTINo; 06-30-2009 at 09:01 PM. Reason: I had low and high pitch confused; thanks, MFfan

06-30-2009, 08:59 PM	#7
Fatso DiMARTINo Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 78	Re: Conn Cornet MFfan...yes, yes, that's it! I was confused there momentarily; had it backwards Yes, LP was 440. The techs who steered people away from low pitch instruments were ill-informed in thinking LP meant a pitch below standard 440. Yes, the HP horns are the horns incompatibile at 452. I'll revise. Thank you. And that's a great link you posted, historically and thoroughly explaining not only high and low pitch but other pitch levels that once were used for instrumets. Woodwind instruments and their history - Google Books Last edited by Fatso DiMARTINo; 06-30-2009 at 09:08 PM. Reason: To clarify that I had HP/LP backwards! Thanks, MFfan.

06-30-2009, 09:08 PM	#8
Trumpet1Ohio Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 182	Re: Conn Cornet Still not sure if I want to keep this horn, spend a bunch of time and a bit of money fixing it up. It sounds like if I get it cleaned, polished and repaired it will be worth $200-$300 at the most. I'm thinking about offering the guy a month of lessons for his son. So, at $20/lesson...$80.00. Sound reasonable? __________________ Ken '59 Olds Super '76 Bach Model 37

06-30-2009, 09:10 PM	#9
Fatso DiMARTINo Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 78	Re: Conn Cornet Oh, I hadn't thought of that! Great deal! Keep us posted, will ya? And I'm not sure if you've played old cornets, but I'm guessing you'll keep it afterall. Some may say, there's little difference in the tone of trumpet and cornet, but to others, sonically they are two vastly different instruments. I think appreciation for cornet lies in the player's ability to first sense, feel and hear the tonal differences then exploit them to their full color. You'll have a good time trying those four mouthpieces and hearing how differently a cornet plays according to mpc type! Last edited by Fatso DiMARTINo; 06-30-2009 at 09:19 PM.

06-30-2009, 09:37 PM	#10
vntgbrslvr Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin Posts: 164	Re: Conn Cornet I have several of these horns. Market value on E-bay right now is all over the place depending on condition and how complete the instrument is. Most important thing to check on the horn is the valves. If there is lateral movement (and there problably is for an instrument from the early 1900's) your'e talking about at least $250 for a valve job to make it work well. Chances are it's a dual or triple key instrument b flat, a and possibly c. 50 bucks would be a sweet deal even for a parts horn. Let me/us know what happens...take pics etc... Brian __________________ Pan America Pea Shooter Conn Connquest 47 King Liberty Trumpet Bach Stratavarious (everyday horn) Yamaha TR-639 Rose bell 37 buescher Aristrocrat "custom built" Cornet Olds Studio (nickel plate) 57 conn 12A Coprion Holton Collegiate Cornet Conn Victor Cornet Conn 1914 Perfected wonder (C, B, A flat) Conn 1912 perfected wonder (C, B flat) Buescher 1903 Epoch Cornet 57 Olds Special Cornet Olds Ambassador Trumpet 1935 Mahillon Flugel Reynolds marching F

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