c.nelson

Has anyone played a curved cornetti? (cornetto?)

I am thinking of building (carving) one to use for street performance.

I have the skills and I have the plans from a book,"The amateur wind instrument maker".


I thought of making a straight one, as I would only have to construct a reamer for the bore,
but a curved one would give me a bizzare, baroque novelty factor.

Curved ones require splitting the wood, and carving out the bore using a series of half round guages describing the taper.

What I lack is the precise location and diameter of the finger holes.

I wonder if a regular trumpet mouthpiece would be good to use?

Will I have to play out the side of my mouth like the old wood cuts show?

The Renaissance Cornetto

Cornet1

Brass-Forum.co.uk

Info here might help,.....'search' using "cornetto" Note mention of moulding from GRP etc

rowuk

The finger holes are more experience than science. The cornetto or zink does not slot. You have about a third that you can bend each note. The regular trumpet rim is so round that you have to work harder to bend the notes in tune. The original cornetto "acorn" mouthpieces have more of a french horn shaped rim.

Here is a source of fine quality inexpensive cornetti. Most audiences cannot hear the difference between a plastic (resin) or wood instrument. As they too are covered in leather, the difference is not even visable!

Jeremy West His his majestys sagbutts and cornetts Christopher Monk Instruments

You will also find fingering charts and other useful info at Jeremys website.

Like with the trumpet, you can put the mouthpiece anywhere that you can get sound out. I am not sure that the historical paintings give an accurate representation. The cornett players were better payed than other musicians and the pictures could just be useful for keeping the competition at bay.

Dr. Zink

Forgive my asking, but just what is your experience with the cornet? I can't imagine it has been very good. Having played the instrument professionally for more than 25 years, I find these observations to be utterly rediculous.

There are quite complicated acoustics involved with the cornett and not much room for misplacing a fingerhole. Undercutting and adjusting size helps but only so much. Instruments that are capable of being played well in tune are not so rare these days and on a decent instrument there really is no need to bend notes as much as you suggest. I'd say notes really can't (or shouldn't) be bent more than a half step. Any more than that then you're effectively subverting the acoustics of the instrument and what does that prove? One should be trying to play the instrument itself not pushing it to what it shouldn' be doing. No its not an equal/meantone temperament thing. Its a JUST intonation thing= playing in tune (period!) in real time be it equal, meantone or any other tone for that matter. Just like modern instruments.

Yes indeed notes on a cornett slot, quite strongly and securely, and quite precisely I might add. Alternate fingerings not only help with intonation but also give options for different tonal colors.

re mouthpieces - many use trumpet style mpieces to great effect. as for "acorn" style mouthpieces: What rim? Their rim ususually measures in the range if 2-3mm wide at most.

Forgive my rant, but I just couldn't sit back and let such misinformation be promulgated.

To the original poster - Unless you really have a thing for woodworking or are really into creating things (or simply a masochist) don't bother. You'll either make an instrument that is surprisingly decent or has potential (very, very, very unlikely) or you'll creat such a dog of an instrument shaped object that you actually will have an experience such as described in a previous posting. Try to get a hold of a real cornett. There are used ones out there, and even the resin ones are quite good. There are even several noted performers who have played professionally and recorded with them.

Again, I am truly and most sincerely sorry for the rant and do not mean it personally. I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same old misinformation about historical brass instruments being perpetuated.

Dr.Z

Toobz

Sounds like fun !
I say give building a cornetto a whirl. Who knows, you may be the next great craftsman !
I would suggest you work with wood. As Dr Z points out, you may build a POS .
If thats the case, you can always burn it later!

stchasking

Don't worry. Your cornetto will make a nice wall hanger or lamp. Laminate several types of wood and take your time. It will look interesting and you will have a story to tell. If it doesn't work, try again. Find your local wood carving guild or hobby group to help you. Ask around at woodworking stores and lumber yards for wood carving groups.

Dr. Z would make a nice lamp shade.

Dr. Zink

Sure, why not indeed! Surely all the great craftsmen started that way. Would suggest a straight cornet as it may be the easiest to make and stand a chance of success. Bore profile measurements can be had from several old articles in the Galpin Society Journal (search for Julian Drake, he gave measurements for the Christ Church cornets which are very good examples). Though these are for curved horns the can certainly be used in a linear fashion for a staight instrument. I believe finger hole placements are also given. It would be quite simple (relatively that is to carving) to drill a stepped bore then ream out to the more exact shape. I remember an old episode of the "Woodright's shop" where he made a flute in this fashion. He made his reamer by turning a dowel to the correct shape though undersized, then imbedded a steel blade along its length to scrape the bore to the correct dimension. There is also another article titled something to the effect of "the cut and dry cornetto" which described making a straight cornet in two halves. A word of caution - don't fool yourself into thinking that a cornet bore is a simple straight taper. Though i suppose you could start there, just don't expect stellar results.

All the best - please report back on your progress and results!

Dr.Z

c.nelson

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I am quite confident in my carving skills,Stchasking.Thank you for the suggestion, though.


I have carved a few fiddles (note I said "fiddles" not violins,they were not good enough to be called violins) completely from
billet. Even carved my own bridges (those fancy scroll cuts aren't just decoration, violin bridges are very complex acoustic
filters). One of my fiddles was even deemed "suprisingly good sounding" by a professional violinist!




I would never assume this undertaking to be simple or straightforward, and as I have said before, in many ways I believe
the the ancients were more sophisticated than we are!

Rowuk, from what I can gather, you are pretty HIP ( historicaly informed person) and in this case I consider the
controversy a good thing. I will try to digest all information without bias.
Sometimes even untruth points to the truth.


Dr Zink, you said the bore is not a straight taper. This is very interesting, and I would love to hear more.

Enough for now, time for me to dig in to those links! THANKS AGAIN.

(P.S. Hey Toobz,
you might be tickled to know my first crappy fiddle found its demise at the wrong end of a .410 bore!)

Dr. Zink

Lucky you! What I wouldn't give to have the time, talent, and skills, not to mention inclination to undertake such a project myself.


Regarding bores: do track down the Galpin Society Journal articles by Julian Drake they really would be a good starting point. Also there are Xrays of instruments available from which you could get reasonably accurate tracings of bore profiles.

All the best

Dr.Z

stchasking

I have a few books on making violins. I will not attempt to build one.
Congratulations on the carving skills. My medical insurance has a high deductible and premium so I won't try anything with sharp knives.
Keep us informed.
I am pretty sure the University of Mass. at Amherst has a collection of wood carved trumpets as you describe.