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Vintage Trumpets / Cornets Discuss E.A. Couturier in the Equipment forums; Hi - I'm new here - the classic high school player who 10 years later has decided to take up ...
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    E.A. Couturier

    Hi - I'm new here - the classic high school player who 10 years later has decided to take up playing as a hobby. This has fallen in my lap and I need some advice, if you would be so kind.

    I've recently inherited a E.A. Couturier trumpet that looks like the bottom one in the catalog clipping at the link below (stating it plays in A, Bflat, and C). Unfortunately I won't have pictures of it for a couple of weeks, but it is all there - lots of tarnish, but no rust and will polish up nicely, I think.

    Is this horn the kind I should have a local guy do work on, or is it something I should send off to some of the people I've seen recommended in the other threads? Thanks for all of your help!

    http://www.rugs-n-relics.com/Brass/t...r-Trumpet.html

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    Piano User ALLCHOPS's Avatar
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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    That is gorgeous...
    www.newyorkplayers.com
    www.reverbnation.com/tonygambaro

    Schilke S-42 50th Anniversary - Dr. Valve

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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    Smitty,

    What a cool looking trumpet -- shades of what we're seeing from the most recent designs (sans the change to A, naturally)

    I have an old Holton "Couturier Model" cornet in perfect condition languishing on a peg in my trumpet room. By the way, there was a good article some years back in the ITG Journal about this amazing man. Perhaps somebody can provide a link (assuming it wasn't only in paper)?

    Good luck,
    EC

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    Forte User Silversorcerer's Avatar
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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    I'm reviving this thread to keep it in the family.

    I just scored a pretty sweet 1919 (according to seller) serial # 4213 Couturier Bb/A trumpet model complete with three main tuning slides (seems to be incremental), lyre, and case. No mouthpiece, but apparently it accepts cornet mouthpieces and I have a few of those. I've had it about 5 minutes but so far all looks well. One tuning slide needs a tube re-soldered but that's the shortest one anyway. Valves seem alright. Rotary is smooth. Valve slides are soldered into place so no need to worry about those. Engraving is really sharp. Mostly straight and mostly silver! Whole thing needs a bath and lubrication. Photos after the sun comes out here.

    Whadayathink?

    Anyone have suggestions on optimizing the mouthpiece situation?

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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    In my 'accumilation' I have two Conical Bore by Couturier long cornets that the designer called trumpets and a York built Wizard short cornet designed by Couturier. In his sales brochure he called the long ones "trumpets", but, because of their conicality and small shank mouthpiece recievers I call them extended cornets. These horns are NOT in tune through the range when played in the key of A.


    OLDLOU>>
    Couturier trumpet
    York Wizard by Couturier cornet
    York Master Model trumpet
    York Elite trumpet
    York Airflow cornet
    Conn Concert Grand Cornet
    King Liberty trumpet
    Reynolds Professional cornet
    Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
    Conn New World Symphony trumpet
    Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
    B&H Sovereign cornet
    G.R.Band Instr. cornet
    Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
    Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
    Many others no room to list

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    Forte User Silversorcerer's Avatar
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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    Lou, what should my set-up be for Bb? I have 3 main slides that appear to be stepped fairly narrowly. Also I wonder about the mP? Can I use one of my New Wonder mp's as a starting point? I'm trying to get the photos up now.....

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    Forte User Silversorcerer's Avatar
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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    Some from the seller that I just put into an album here:

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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    Couturier included three slightly different tuning slides for his horns to bring them into tune while remaining conical.His intent was that the musician should find the slide that was closest to the pitch required and 'lip it in' somewhat, rather than to just extend the slide. His slides should always be at full insertion. This was a very poor method musically and quite costly for old Ernst Albert. It might have been a major part of the cause of his company going under and his early demise in a mental institute in N.Y. state.


    As for a mouthpiece choice, I use whichever mouthpiece I find gives me the sound that I, personally, want. The original factory supplied mouthpieces were a deep vee cup design. I have two of these, which I rarely use.


    OLDLOU>>
    Couturier trumpet
    York Wizard by Couturier cornet
    York Master Model trumpet
    York Elite trumpet
    York Airflow cornet
    Conn Concert Grand Cornet
    King Liberty trumpet
    Reynolds Professional cornet
    Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
    Conn New World Symphony trumpet
    Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
    B&H Sovereign cornet
    G.R.Band Instr. cornet
    Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
    Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
    Many others no room to list

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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    Interesting. I have it put back together after cleaning and played it about an hour trying different mp's and haven't really hit anything I love, but I do like the sound of the horn. The tone is very clear and balanced. It seems to need a mp with a bigger bore than what I've tried so far. I tried a Conn classic mellophone mouthpiece from 1915 (cornet shank) and that was too far, but it seems to want something in that direction, which is something like the V-cup design you (Lou) describe. It has the "M" stamp above the serial # which means medium bore? My first impression is that it is HUGE compared to my favorite horns.

    Here's some interesting comparisons:

    Weight (w/mp):

    Couturier long model 2.64 lb.
    Conn Victor New Wonder 2.56 lb.
    Conn 22B NYS Early 2.41 lb.

    Length (no mp):

    Couturier long model 19.5 in.
    Conn Victor New Wonder 15.75 in.
    Conn 22B NYS Early 18.5 in.

    Piston travel:

    Couturier long model 1.8 cm.
    Conn Victor New Wonder 1.4 cm.
    Conn 22B NYS Early 1.3 cm.

    Bell Diameter

    Couturier long model 11.3 cm.
    Conn Victor New Wonder 11.6 cm.
    Conn 22B NYS Early 11.7 cm.


    The Couturier long model is a L A R G E cornet. You really must have the thing up close to know how big it is. It doesn't look that way in the photos because the whole thing is bigger everywhere, except the bell is pretty standard. The valve casings seem huge;- big diameter, and tall also. It makes a 22B look like a sportster.

    There is a certain elegance in design even for its' size and that gives it a commanding appearance. According to listing the seller's grandfather used it in a professional circus band. I could see it having the right carnival presence for that job;- a bit oversized and theatrical almost. I still have to do a bit of experimenting to decide if it has a commanding voice that I can access well. It seems like with the right mouthpiece and some experience it could have very good projection and still maintain a cornet tonal quality. You have to give it high marks for eccentricity and originality. I've never seen or played anything quite like it.

    This one seems to be in pretty good shape all around. The valves show a good bit of wear but move fine and feel smooth. The rotary valve works smoothly. The springs make some noise and could probably be a less stiff so those will be the first things to go. It could use a few tweaks.

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    Re: E.A. Couturier

    You make mention of the size of the valve casings. This was done to accomidate the conical through tubes of the valves. Old E.A. Couturier was an absolute fanatic about total conicality in all of his instrument designs.



    One of my Couturier 'long cornets' was my fathers favorite when he was in high school, playing in several concert and marching bands and in a bunch of local evangelical churches in Western Michigan. I still use that same instrument on many occasions for the same kind of playing.


    I sincerely hope that you find a mouthpiece that suits you and that you get a good bit of happiness playing that old jewel.


    OLDLOU>>
    Couturier trumpet
    York Wizard by Couturier cornet
    York Master Model trumpet
    York Elite trumpet
    York Airflow cornet
    Conn Concert Grand Cornet
    King Liberty trumpet
    Reynolds Professional cornet
    Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
    Conn New World Symphony trumpet
    Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
    B&H Sovereign cornet
    G.R.Band Instr. cornet
    Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
    Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
    Many others no room to list

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