Help Me Decide

mattbeme · 05-13-2009, 09:00 AM

I need help deciding: CORNET

1. One which will have fairly tight slotting for more classical and church hymn work.. Not in a horn section - I play alone accompanying a piano.

2. One which will have a darker, softer tone as opposed to bright and piercing.

3. One which is as professional level as possible in construction and playability.

** Please give me your opinions on which of these would suit my needs:

1. 1959 Olds Super

2. 1957 York Super Custom

3. 1945 Blessing Artist

4. 1968 King Silver Sonic

5. 1966 Conn 28A Connstellation

6. 1953 Bach NY Mercedes

7. 1941 King Master

--I do not have the luxury of being able to play any of these before buying.

Matt B.
Canada

Keith Fiala · 05-13-2009, 09:07 AM

Hi Matt,

I am not sure why you're limiting your choices to the older instruments, perhaps clarifying that?

If this is your list that's been whittled down, I would "think" that the Bach Mercedes would be a decent choice. Is it silver plate or gold?

Good luck - just my thoughts...

Keith Fiala
Brass Player Solution: Lessons, Videos, Music Stands, Help for Trumpet and Trombone players

trumpetnick · 05-13-2009, 09:42 AM

I would vote rather for the Olds or the Conn. However, I would line up with Keith. Why limit yourself to vintage horns? Do you shop on ebay?

mattbeme · 05-13-2009, 09:57 AM

My Budget is $600 tops. Being such, I felt that I had no choice but to limit myself to these horns which are currently for sale on several online stores but also do come up on ebay.

--The Bach Mercedes is lacquer

Matt B.

rbdeli · 05-13-2009, 01:41 PM

Here is a '72 Bach Mercedes? Is this a different manufacturer?
I'm not familiar with the Mercedes

Bach Mercedes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Fiala

Hi Matt,

I am not sure why you're limiting your choices to the older instruments, perhaps clarifying that?

If this is your list that's been whittled down, I would "think" that the Bach Mercedes would be a decent choice. Is it silver plate or gold?

Good luck - just my thoughts...

Keith Fiala
Brass Player Solution: Lessons, Videos, Music Stands, Help for Trumpet and Trombone players

rbdeli · 05-13-2009, 01:45 PM

1956 Conn Connstelation

1950's Martin Committee

Probably not in the budget. Just forked over $400 in car repairs for my daughter!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbeme

I need help deciding:

Would you settle for a 1958 Olds Super?

1958 Olds Super

1. One which will have fairly tight slotting for more classical and church hymn work.. Not in a horn section - I play alone accompanying a piano.

2. One which will have a darker, softer tone as opposed to bright and piercing.

3. One which is as professional level as possible in construction and playability.

** Please give me your opinions on which of these would suit my needs:

1. 1959 Olds Super

2. 1957 York Super Custom

3. 1945 Blessing Artist

4. 1968 King Silver Sonic

5. 1966 Conn 28A Connstellation

6. 1953 Bach NY Mercedes

--I do not have the luxury of being able to play any of these before buying.

Matt B.
Canada

mattbeme · 05-13-2009, 02:08 PM

Those are some beauties! The Martin is too loose slotting for me though.

That 58 Super trumpet on ebay looks great but if he's charging $50 to ship within the US what outrageous amount would he charge to ship to me in Canada?!

Matt

mattbeme · 05-13-2009, 02:10 PM

I just realized that I failed to mention that I was looking for a cornet but would consider a trumpet if the model and price were a good match for me.

--I added a 1941 King Master to the list.

Matt

rbdeli · 05-13-2009, 02:46 PM

Matt,

Just curious: How did you come up with these choices? You are being very specific about what you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbeme

I just realized that I failed to mention that I was looking for a cornet but would consider a trumpet if the model and price were a good match for me.

--I added a 1941 King Master to the list.

Matt

rowuk · 05-13-2009, 02:51 PM

What is this slotting stuff? Since when was that important? I think that your understanding of slotting is not correct.

Tighter "slots" does not make a horn more secure or in tune. Slots are related to efficiency and the more efficient a horn is, the harder it is to "shade" the tone. On a cornet with a deep mouthpiece, efficiency is WAY down anyway. Especially with vintage horns, tighter slots could make it tougher to play in tune, especially if you do not have a first and third valve slide. This is REALLY apparent when playing with a piano that as a standard has well tempered tuning.

Trying to by a horn by slots or darkness is like trying to pick a girlfriend by the color of her eyes and waiste size - not much of a complete picture, eh?

So my pick: it doesn't matter. Any of those horns could be a winner or loser. You can't play them before buying so you might as well toss a coin. Vintage horns are the way they are, you really don't know what they have been through, if they are truly original or if they are about to fall apart. I really love my Holton Clarke model long cornet from 1911, but I inherited it. I knew how well my grandfather took care of it - and that instead of valve oil he used the VERY common practice of spitting on the valves to lube them. The valve wear is considerable due to that.

I am not putting you down. I just think that your purchase parameters are not sufficient to make an intelligent decision.

05-13-2009, 09:00 AM	#1
mattbeme New Friend Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 16	Help Me Decide I need help deciding: CORNET 1. One which will have fairly tight slotting for more classical and church hymn work.. Not in a horn section - I play alone accompanying a piano. 2. One which will have a darker, softer tone as opposed to bright and piercing. 3. One which is as professional level as possible in construction and playability. Please give me your opinions on which of these would suit my needs: 1. 1959 Olds Super 2. 1957 York Super Custom 3. 1945 Blessing Artist 4. 1968 King Silver Sonic 5. 1966 Conn 28A Connstellation 6. 1953 Bach NY Mercedes 7. 1941 King Master --I do not** have the luxury of being able to play any of these before buying. Matt B. Canada Last edited by mattbeme; 05-13-2009 at 02:15 PM.

05-13-2009, 09:07 AM	#2
Keith Fiala Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 200	Re: Help Me Decide Hi Matt, I am not sure why you're limiting your choices to the older instruments, perhaps clarifying that? If this is your list that's been whittled down, I would "think" that the Bach Mercedes would be a decent choice. Is it silver plate or gold? Good luck - just my thoughts... Keith Fiala Brass Player Solution: Lessons, Videos, Music Stands, Help for Trumpet and Trombone players __________________ www.brassplayersolution.com www.trumpetresources.com www.keithfiala.com

05-13-2009, 09:42 AM	#3
trumpetnick Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Posts: 2,044	Re: Help Me Decide I would vote rather for the Olds or the Conn. However, I would line up with Keith. Why limit yourself to vintage horns? Do you shop on ebay? __________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 256, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

05-13-2009, 09:57 AM	#4
mattbeme New Friend Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 16	Re: Help Me Decide My Budget is $600 tops. Being such, I felt that I had no choice but to limit myself to these horns which are currently for sale on several online stores but also do come up on ebay. --The Bach Mercedes is lacquer Matt B.

05-13-2009, 02:08 PM	#7
mattbeme New Friend Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 16	Re: Help Me Decide Those are some beauties! The Martin is too loose slotting for me though. That 58 Super trumpet on ebay looks great but if he's charging $50 to ship within the US what outrageous amount would he charge to ship to me in Canada?! Matt Last edited by mattbeme; 05-13-2009 at 02:13 PM.

05-13-2009, 02:10 PM	#8
mattbeme New Friend Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 16	Re: Help Me Decide I just realized that I failed to mention that I was looking for a cornet but would consider a trumpet if the model and price were a good match for me. --I added a 1941 King Master to the list. Matt Last edited by mattbeme; 05-13-2009 at 02:16 PM.

05-13-2009, 02:51 PM	#10
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 8,006	Re: Help Me Decide What is this slotting stuff? Since when was that important? I think that your understanding of slotting is not correct. Tighter "slots" does not make a horn more secure or in tune. Slots are related to efficiency and the more efficient a horn is, the harder it is to "shade" the tone. On a cornet with a deep mouthpiece, efficiency is WAY down anyway. Especially with vintage horns, tighter slots could make it tougher to play in tune, especially if you do not have a first and third valve slide. This is REALLY apparent when playing with a piano that as a standard has well tempered tuning. Trying to by a horn by slots or darkness is like trying to pick a girlfriend by the color of her eyes and waiste size - not much of a complete picture, eh? So my pick: it doesn't matter. Any of those horns could be a winner or loser. You can't play them before buying so you might as well toss a coin. Vintage horns are the way they are, you really don't know what they have been through, if they are truly original or if they are about to fall apart. I really love my Holton Clarke model long cornet from 1911, but I inherited it. I knew how well my grandfather took care of it - and that instead of valve oil he used the VERY common practice of spitting on the valves to lube them. The valve wear is considerable due to that. I am not putting you down. I just think that your purchase parameters are not sufficient to make an intelligent decision. __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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