TMoom

Hello TrumpetMaster members. This is my first post after reading posts here for some time. This afternoon I found a Holton Chicago New Proportion cornet in a local music store on consignment. It seems to be in very good shape, considering it's age. Not much compression, but the valves seem to work quite well, all the slides move freely, some repairs have been made relatively recently. I understand these horns were sold with a "high" and "low" set of slides. This one only has what I take to be the standard A=440 slides. I've yet to find out how much the owner is asking for it, which of course is critical. But assuming the price were acceptable, I'm wondering if this would be sensible horn to pick up. It sounds really nice -- in fact gorgeous, compared to a couple of other used cornets in the store. I played it with a Bach 3C cornet mp. And it looks very good. But could a vintage horn like this be considered a player? I'm not a collector, so if I bought the horn, I'd want to use it. How does one deal with tuning problems on a horn that lacks third and first valve slide saddles/rings? I experimented with it for some time in the store using an electronic tuner, adjusting the tuning slides, trying to find a reasonable setting. I could get it pretty close, but always with a few problem notes (which could well be me, rather than the horn). How were these horns originally played? Did the player change the slide positions for each key to optimize the intonation?

I've played trumpets for many years, but have never owned a vintage horn. I've been wanting to get a cornet, and this one is certainly attractive. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts about the usefulness of a horn that is perhaps 90 years old. I also play stringed instruments, where the older they are, the better, but I don't know if that applies to horns.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

oldlou

I have had several Chicago made Holton cornets and still have a Chicago made Holton Clarke model shepherds crook cornet. In my experience, the best way to get decent intonation is with a short and slender shank vintage mouthpiece. My favorite for these old Holtons is a Holton 17. Most of my elderly York,Conn, Boston, and a few other short and slender shank pieces work quite well. Standard Bach shank mouthpieces run the intonation all over the place.


OLDLOU>>

__________________
Couturier trumpet
York Master Model trumpet
York Elite trumpet
York Airflow cornet
King super 20 Master Model cornet
King Liberty trumpet
Reynolds Professional cornet
Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell
Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
B&H Sovereign cornet
G.R.Band Instr. cornet
Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Many others no room to list

aspires

Another possibility is that is has a random combination of high and low slides that will make you sound like "The Star Wars Girl". I wonder if that's why you had to fiddle with slides. Usually older horns with no finger rings are relatively in tune, and you maybe have to pull the 3rd slide out a tad and just lip it on notes that are a little out.

If the price is right, a good tech should be able to modify slides/lengths and add a ring or saddle... not really worth that in my opinion unless you get it for a song or had personal attachment to it. There are tons of great old players out there, especially if you don't mind trying the online auctions.

Dale Proctor

The best vintage horns are newer than that one, IMHO. Having no 3rd slide control is a drawback, and you'll find that it doesn't blend very well with more modern instruments. Now, if you just want it from a collector/messing around standpoint, buy it if you like it. If you want to actually perform on it, find something better that you won't have to fight as much. In horns, "the older the better" is not generally true. I like upper-level horns from the 1950's and 1960's, myself.

__________________


Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

"Hit it hard and wish it well." - Claude Gordon

oldlou

I agree with Dale. I have a rather large eclectic 'accumilation' of trumpets and cornets from many eras. The horns from immediately after WWll are, in my personal opinion the best. Those of later vintage and of pro level are just out of my financial reach as an elderly 'wannabee' musician on a retirement,and low fixed, income. I stated that I currently own a Chicago made Holton Clarke Model shepherds crook cornet. It is virtually new in condition with spectacular copper plated valves and is absolutely gorgeous, with a spectacular high polish silver finish, but, I just do not enjoy playing it. The intonation is dodgey. The volume ability is limited, and the ergonomics were designed for a person with VERY small hands. I don't have hands. I have PAWS. They are very wide, with stubby fingers. Every time that I have taken this little horn to a community concert band rehearsal,( NEVER to a performance ), the rest of the trumpet section have all oohed and aahed over it because of its cosmetic beauty. I don't let them play it, because I intend to sell or trade it some day and don't want to take a chance on any scratches or dents.


OLDLOU>>

__________________
Couturier trumpet
York Master Model trumpet
York Elite trumpet
York Airflow cornet
King super 20 Master Model cornet
King Liberty trumpet
Reynolds Professional cornet
Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell
Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
B&H Sovereign cornet
G.R.Band Instr. cornet
Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Many others no room to list

TMoom

Thanks to everyone for the good information. If I decide to buy this horn, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Tom

screamingmorris

Half a century ago.
I am at my grandparent's farm.
I am sitting on my grandpa's lap.
I put my little hand up on top of my grandpa's hand to compare sizes.
His hand is the size of a grizzly bear paw.
That's what a life of working on a farm will do to your hands.
I sure miss my grandpa...

- Morris