study888

Hello to All. Have tried to post this twice on the Trumpet Herald. No replys or info. yet. The one fellow that I know has a lot of good info. About these Old King Flugels is T.H. member ctm2aud.I believe his name is Dave. Dave if you happen to post here.I hope you see this Thread. I left one back at the T.H. My e-mail is jyoungjr9@bellsouth.net. Or contact me here. Or the T.H. Now to my questions on these Old Flugels.Hopefully some here has played one.Maybe Old Lou has blowed one. I am looking for a flugel to play in a small Church setting. And I saw a couple pop on E-bay. One in brass with some worn valves.Went for over $400.00 plus shipping.And I was highest bidder after 34 bids on another in silver satin plate with copper valves.Not sure if copper valves is good or bad. I had a pretty good maxium bid as well. Still did not meet the reserve that was set. These are small bore flugels. I had read the small bore flugels are hard to tune and play in tune. These older kings had plenty of slides like a Trumpet or cornet. And used a Cornet mouthpiece. I figured they should be easy to tune.And play with good intonation.My 1948 King Master and my 1942 36A Conn Concert Grand cornet. Play in tune well. I am a Baby Boomer of 57 years old. That likes the old stuff. My Conn Cornet has not made it to the Music Tech yet. For a good cleaning and all the etc. Yet this little dirty beast can put out a sweet mellow Cornet sound. So back to these flugels of old.Can anyone give me some good info. on them.Their quality and the sound and playability. The original owners that were selling them.Claim they play well in tune with a unique sound of their own.And blend well in a small group playing.Not doubting them. But all feed back and all opinions help. Thank for reading.And for any reply.

oldlou

.Maybe Old Lou has blowed one.


I worked on one or two when I was working for 'Bill' Johnson. I was a King fan and wanted one, but, 'Bill' talked me out of it. He was a close friend with Harvy White,( owner of King ), and had some experience in what Mr. White had to say during the devolopement of that early flugel. I never found out what my boss's reason was for taking me out of buying one.


I am looking for a flugel to play in a small Church setting. And I saw a couple pop on E-bay. One in brass with some worn valves.Went for over $400.00 plus shipping.And I was highest bidder after 34 bids on another in silver satin plate with copper valves.Not sure if copper valves is good or bad.


King and Holton Copper valves were the goodest of the good. I currently have a King Liberty and two Holton Clarke Models with copper valves. I LOVE "EM!!!!


OLDLOU>>

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Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
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study888

Hello Lou.Thanks for your reply.Wish you had got to play them.And give your opinion. I figure they may have a sound closer to a french horn.Since the persons that do own them.Say it is a unique sound.And maybe not exactly like the flugel sound today. Really hard for me to judge.Since I have not played a flugel of any sorts.The music shops around here do not stock any.I like you. Am a E-Bay Baby Boomer King and Conn Vintage Horn Junkie. These things keep poping up. So Tempting to bid on them.I just recently won off E-Bay.A real well kept 1942 36A Conn Concert Grand Cornet. A really nice playing Cornet.And a pleasure to hold in the hand.Very well balanced. Have not got it cleaned and put in new felts springs etc. Hope to do that in a few weeks. Thanks for the info. on the Copper valves. My 1948 King Master cornet in yellow brass. Plays real centered out front. This 36A Conn Cornet.Has a larger bell throat.The sound is more spread out and all around you.Also with a short Shank reciever.It is held up closer to you like a Short model Shepards crook cornet. It looks to me. The Later Conn 37A short model Conn cornet had same bell design.But with the new Tri-C valve design and Extra Large bore and differant lead pipe wrap etc. I have a 1967-68 Reynolds Argenta Cornet.Got to also put a new valve kit etc. It is in great shape.Have not figured out the best Cornet mouthpiece set up for it yet.Solid Nickel Silver horns have a some what differant sound and overtones. But I know why. They are called Connstellation Killers by Tom T. I owned a Conn 37A short model Connie cornet. Strong playing horn. But this Reynolds will walk over it.Have to play in house at half the air.Are it will just get to loud on the ears.My wife does not like it. Got to keep it just for the Trumpet players.When they see my little shiny Silver Cornet. And say to me. We will not try to drown that little fellow out.Just hang in there.HaHa Boy will they be suprised. Thanks again Lou for your help.And all the fellows on the T.M.

ctm2aud

Greetings,
I found a late 30's HN White King flugel last year at a yard sale. Didn't know what it was at first. Went home and googled H.N. White. Went back to the yard sale and bought it for $100. I sold it later to a collector because I could not get it to play in tune. It did not come with the original mp or any other attachments that might have applied to make it play in tune. Still, I loved the sound; in between a trumpet and a modern flugel in tone quality; call it a flumpet.

So, I've been keeping half an eye on ebay for another with the whole kit: horn, mp, and leadpipe adapters. Just last week I won a 1920's vintage King flugel, the first King flugel, a model 1071 (the one without the pinky hook). You can see a twin of mine at the H.N. White Kings website.

This one looks like it was played for five years and put in the closet for 75. Gold wash bell, matte silver finish with the shiny silver highlights on the engraved part of the bell. No dents or scratches; just two little dings. No evidence of repairs. Slides look new. Bottom sprung valves. Original mp, and lead pipe adapters. I washed it, applied some Binak to the valves and off we went!

I played it for the first time (in tune!!) in church last week on an Amazing Grace duet; me on melody, our music director doing the harmony with his Kanstul copper bell trumpet. Truly a beautiful blend.

The description on the H.N. White Kings website is correct: it has an exquisite sound. I'm used to using a pinky ring so I need to get used to playing without one. It does not slot real well, sort of like a Committee in that respect. I have to work more for good intonation than I'm used to on my trumpet, or even my Olds flugel for that matter.

Any other questions, please ask. And no I'm not selling it.

Regards,
Dave Taylor

Flip Oakes Celebration
1964 Olds Fullerton flugel
1920's King flugel (flumpet)

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Sing to the Lord a new song, praise him with the sounding of the trumpet!

study888

Hello Dave. Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST for Your Reply. I was looking at buying. A similar Old Vintage King Flugel like yours. If I had. Would not have turn out well. As it was advertised without the rest of the tuning pieces. No extra tuning items mention. Just the horn and case.And no mouthpiece. Once again. It pays to do your research on the Trumpet Master and the Trumpet Herald. The Conn Loyalist. The Olds Central. The Contempora Corner. And the H.N. White King site. Along with some others. We are all in this together. To help each other. Thank you and Old LOU and many Others. From all this. I have been able to make some great buys off E-Bay. My recent was a 1942 36A Conn Concert Grand Cornet. In great conditon. My Music Tech. Told me to take it home. And just give the horn a good cleaning.And enjoy. Take Care.

ctm2aud

There seem to have been two variants of the King 1071 flugel. Perhaps the moderator of a King website could help out here.

The first model, produced in the 1920's, has an odd (to me) short shank mouthpiece with a two lead pipe tuning tubes and a lead pipe tightening screw similar to some modern flugels. I get the best sound out of it using the original mp and both tuning tubes.

The second model, produced in the 1930's, appears not to have any tuning adapters and no lead pipe tuning screw. At least the 1930's flugels pictured on both HN White websites have no tuning screw and the one I had didn't either. I have to assume that you need the correct mouthpiece shank to get the 1930's version of the 1071 to play in tune. If you were really interested it might be worthwhile to get a 1930's version and experiment with different flugel mp shanks. You could always sell it to one of the HN White collectors if it didn't work out.

Regards,
Dave Taylor

__________________
Sing to the Lord a new song, praise him with the sounding of the trumpet!

study888

Thanks for the Corrections Dave.I looked at both vintage H.N. White Flugels and saw the same thing. The Silver King Flugel that was recently on E-Bay. Like the first one you had. Does not have its original mouthpiece. My winning bid was $255.00 plus $30.00 shipping. My maxium bid was set at $365.00 plus the $30.00 shipping as well. An all brass one in the newer model version went for $400.00 plus $30.00 shipping. The Reserve on the newer version and in Silver brush plate. I was bidding on.Was within $200.00 of being able to buy a new Jupiter Flugel. Hope I got that name brand right. Not sure. It is one of the recent flugel brands that is real popular for around $800.00 new. I have read some good reviews on the Barrington Flugel for $269.00 dollars plus tax and shipping.Would have liked to try one of those King oldies. But not at a new horn price. You mentioned the BiNak valve oil. Great stuff. It really works well on these older Cornets. I have.Thanks again for all your great info. and input. One last question. Do you also play a more modern Flugel as well? And what brand? I would also like to thank the Trumpet Master for there quick reply feature. The Trumpet Herald should add this feauture. As their's is much more time consuming. Later

ctm2aud

Study888,
In response to your last question, yes I play a more modern flugel but it is old, that is, it's an Olds Fullerton L12 from 1964. Got it a couple of months ago. Binak worked on that too. Wonderful classic flugel sound. IMHO, a flugel needs a brass or rose brass bell (the L12 is rose brass) to sound good. A copper bell on a flugel goes to far in the direction of a fuzzy sound. It sounds to me like you're blowing Nerf balls out the bell...
Regards,
Dave Taylor

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Sing to the Lord a new song, praise him with the sounding of the trumpet!