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Vintage Trumpets / Cornets Discuss Monarch horn circa thirties in the Equipment forums; I just scored a silver Monarch trumpet off of ebay for a steal, and I wondered if anyone knows anything ...
  1. #1
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    Monarch horn circa thirties

    I just scored a silver Monarch trumpet off of ebay for a steal, and I wondered if anyone knows anything about this horn.

    Its obviously a Conn 58b copy of some type, but with some differences as would be expected.

    I have been unable so far to get any information about it, but it is a good looking horn with an attractive art deco engraving on the bell, and a distinctive pea shooter shape and underslung finger ring.

    I understand that Satchmo used the very similar Conn 56b in his early career, and I'm hoping that this turns out to be a quality instrument rather than a cheap effort.

    It's in slightly above average condition with a few dings and some slight dents, some wear to the silver plate, a stuck slide - not the tuning slide, but the one behind it that extends for key change, the key change screw is present but the nuts are missing, as I wont be changing the key, I dont see this as important at this time.

    If it turns out to be quality then I will consider refurbing it to its former glory as it looks to be a solid base to start from.

    Whats the verdict.

    Many thanks.
    The only place that "Results" comes before "Work", is in the dictionary.

    "I aint squealing till Ive seen my mouthpiece"

    2001 Yamaha YCR2330II Cornet
    1954 Conn 80A Cornet
    1976 Boosey & Hawkes Regent Cornet
    1916 Boosey & Co A/Bb Silbron Class A Trumpet
    1930's Monarch A/Bb Trumpet
    1950's Comet unknown European Trumpet

    Boosey 8A Trumpet mpc
    Yamaha 11B4 Trumpet mpc
    Yamaha 11F4 Cornet mpc
    Denis Wick 4B Cornet mpc
    Conn 4 Cornet mpc

  2. #2
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    I didn't see anything on Monarch on horn-u-copia, although I didn't try the search feature to see if it showed up that way. You may have a puzzler. Here's one account of the Monarch name, for what it might be worth.

    Antique Musical Instruments: monarch trumpet., old trumpet, dallas star
    Vintage Olds and Reynolds and Selmers, yes sir, yes sir, two gazoos full.

    Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls, etc.

  3. #3
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    lol, sounds like the one I tried for :)

  4. #4
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    Hi Chops, thanks for the information, but I think this is a different model than in your link.

    Hi Beaut, sorry for grabbing it from you, but I am happy I won it.

    An update on the horn, - I dropped it off at the repairers as I couldnt free the slide, it turned out to be a pitch change slide for changing high pitch to low pitch, so it needs freeing if I am to use it in low pitch A=440, and he is rectifying a few other minor problems as well. He is of the opinion that it could make a good jazz horn, well have to see on that one.

    It turns out to be listed on Hornucopia under the search facility, but I couldnt see any details, Ill keep you posted.

    regards

    Brian
    The only place that "Results" comes before "Work", is in the dictionary.

    "I aint squealing till Ive seen my mouthpiece"

    2001 Yamaha YCR2330II Cornet
    1954 Conn 80A Cornet
    1976 Boosey & Hawkes Regent Cornet
    1916 Boosey & Co A/Bb Silbron Class A Trumpet
    1930's Monarch A/Bb Trumpet
    1950's Comet unknown European Trumpet

    Boosey 8A Trumpet mpc
    Yamaha 11B4 Trumpet mpc
    Yamaha 11F4 Cornet mpc
    Denis Wick 4B Cornet mpc
    Conn 4 Cornet mpc

  5. #5
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    no worries about it :)
    be interesting to see some pictures of it once it's cleaned up though as it looked quite nice

  6. #6
    Fortissimo User MFfan's Avatar
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    Specifications on instrument #

    Here should be the Monarch trumpet photo on HUC.
    Dave Rafferty
    Spartan for Life
    ???? Barrington trumpet
    1968 Besson 2-20 trumpet
    1960's B & H Embassy trumpet
    1967 Conn Connquest cornet
    ???? Devillier (stencil) Trumpet German?
    ???? Besson 609
    1957 Besson 8-10 Trumpet
    ???? Elkhart Band Instrument Cornet (ELK)
    www.KalamazooconcertBand.org
    Portage Senior Center Dance Band
    www.PSCB.Soull.com
    Kalamazoo Checkers Swing Band

  7. #7
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    How about some pictures of the instrument? It might help in some of us being able to give you more information.

  8. #8
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    J E Dallas & Co was (is?) a London Musical Instrument dealer who supplied the lower/ middle end of the market, often with foreign-made (i.e Bohemian/ Czech/Austrian) horns and also other instruments. I have a JEDSON Tenor Banjo which was one of Dallas' tradenames, but this particular banjo was an expensive "Conservatoire" model and probably made by Slingerland or MayBelle in the U.S.
    However, back to the Monarch, it is almost certainly a close copy of a Conn 58B (I have one of each to compare) and sold for about 6.10s.0d ( 7.15s.0d silver-plate) to the semi-pro market in the mid-30's. It would have been a competitor to the Selmer Manhattan (not a Paris-made horn).
    To put it in context, the cheapies (e.g Comet) were about 3, "budget" professionals ( e.g. Dearman ) were around 12, the Selmer Louis Armstrong "Challenger" around 20 and the Selmer Radio Improved "Nat Gonella Special" was 36 in 1936 ( I have one with it's original receipt and 15-year guarantee!). The exchange rate for the English Pound varied widely in the 30's but was between 3 or 4 $ to the .
    The Monarch I have blows very well, favouring the high notes.

  9. #9
    Fortissimo User MFfan's Avatar
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    Thanks for joining the forum with your knowledge of the UK instruments and the scene in general. Once in a while we get an enquiry on Dearman's and others.
    I could see a number of similarities between the Monarch on HUC and the Conn 58B as seen on TheConnloyalist, other than only 1 tuning slide brace as opposed to 2 on the Monarch and probably others I can't detect.
    Dave Rafferty
    Spartan for Life
    ???? Barrington trumpet
    1968 Besson 2-20 trumpet
    1960's B & H Embassy trumpet
    1967 Conn Connquest cornet
    ???? Devillier (stencil) Trumpet German?
    ???? Besson 609
    1957 Besson 8-10 Trumpet
    ???? Elkhart Band Instrument Cornet (ELK)
    www.KalamazooconcertBand.org
    Portage Senior Center Dance Band
    www.PSCB.Soull.com
    Kalamazoo Checkers Swing Band

  10. #10
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    Re: Monarch horn circa thirties

    Hi John,
    Thanks for the information, its exactly what I was hoping for and im grateful to you.
    You have confirmed that it is a good instrument, a good investment, and a worthy candidate for restoration when funds allow.
    My local repairers McQueens agree that it blows well and would make a good Jazz horn, they have returned it to playable condition for me, with new felts, corks and pulled a stuck slide.
    I really like the look of it I think its a very attractive design, sleek and racy, and I prefer a bright cutting tone, so I think I will love playing it as well.
    Kind regards
    Brian
    The only place that "Results" comes before "Work", is in the dictionary.

    "I aint squealing till Ive seen my mouthpiece"

    2001 Yamaha YCR2330II Cornet
    1954 Conn 80A Cornet
    1976 Boosey & Hawkes Regent Cornet
    1916 Boosey & Co A/Bb Silbron Class A Trumpet
    1930's Monarch A/Bb Trumpet
    1950's Comet unknown European Trumpet

    Boosey 8A Trumpet mpc
    Yamaha 11B4 Trumpet mpc
    Yamaha 11F4 Cornet mpc
    Denis Wick 4B Cornet mpc
    Conn 4 Cornet mpc

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