Kingdigimon

I'm curious about this horn that I inherited. It's a Couesnon Flugel and all I have to go by is the info engraved on the horn. It appears to be in excellent condition free of any major dings or dents and plays and sounds very good. It has a gold plated finish that appears worn and I don't know a thing about cleaning the finish or the horn.

The engraved info is as follows starting furtherst from the bell...
A thin banner reading (I think) Universelle Exposition of Paris
Below that is a date -- 1900 in a circle
Below that reads Hors Concours
Below that appears a small logo
Below that co. name -- Couesnon & Gie
Below that (hard to read) A few French words
Below that address -- 94 Rue xxxx (not sure here)
Below that -- Paris
Below that -- small symbol with a the numbers 24

No serial number anywhere on the horn. Curious if anyone knows what the value is? How does this compare with the nice flugels of the day? Should I take it in for a cleaning and polishing? It appears that the only place to tune this horn is close to the mouthpiece. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
David

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David Allan

BrassOnLine

If it is in good condition, let's say 1.200 $.
You can ask to Dr. Valve Doctor Valve, Trumpet Repair and Restoration
It is much better than the flugels they are making today (factory was destroyed by fire in about 1950 and drawings-blueprints and all was lost)
BEST REGARDS !!!

Sturmbill

David,

Try doing a search both here on TM and TrumpetHerald as well. There have been numerous posts about the Queenie. As I remember there was one post where folks were trying to compile a data base of Couesnon serial numbers with date purchased, etc.

Because of the fire at the factory is it very frustrating trying to pinpoint date of manufacture. Also, the factory seemed to have been inclined to put a lot of different markings on horns. These are now mysteries for us to solve!

The horns were popular because they were inexpensive (not cheap!), but had some real intonation quirks. They are loved for their smokey jazz sound, but they can't compare to the modern horns of today. That having been said, I still play and love mine, but I have added a Melk/GR leadpipe and will soon be adding a third valve trigger. These additions make the horn a lot better with tuning.

Good luck with your search, and enjoy having a iconic horn!

Bill

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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati!
- Red Green

Kingdigimon

Wow -- so much info. "Queenie" and the upgrade info. Down the ways, you are saying to have the horn modified for better playing's sake -- I imagine?

Maybe to leave it "as is" and get a better flugel in the future. If I was to modify it -- would any "horn specialty shop" be able to modify this type of horn?

And I guess what you are telling me is that there is no way to accurately know how old the horn is?

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David Allan

Sturmbill

David,
Check out these threads and check out the info. With some extrapolation you might be able to figure out a ball-park estimate for your horn's vintage. Watch especially for Tom Turner's posts. Also do a search for Couesnon on the trumpet BBs.

As for upgrade or sell, well, that depends on you! If you think you like the horn well enough, then try the Melk leadpipe. It is a modification that is easily reversed if you find out you want to preserve the historical integrity of the horn. Mine is a work-a-day Star, vintage '73-'74 (I think! I bought it new in Apr. '74 for $125). There is nothing particularly rare or significant about it, so I have no qualms about modifying it with a 3rd slide trigger. It will make the horn work better for me.

If you decide to move to a newer flugel, do your research and then play test models you think you might like and are able to afford. There are plenty of guys on these boards who will give you their opinion and good information about different models, but ultimately those should be just guideposts that help you narrow it down to a few you might be interested in. For instance, the university where I teach has been purchasing the Kanstul ZKF 1525 flugels. It is a good horn, and works for our jazz and brass band usage, but it might not work for you.

At any rate, try these links, and enjoy the search!

Regards,

Bill

http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140...ion-35051.html (tom turner please...Couesnon Flugelhorn question)

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/v...light=couesnon

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/v...light=couesnon

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/v...light=couesnon

__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati!
- Red Green

Kingdigimon

Thank you Bill -- I appreciate all your help.
David

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David Allan

SuperC WannaB

Sorry to come in so late to the discussion but i have 2 fully restored turn of the century Couesnon flugels, all original parts, Robb Steward did some minor restoration ... all original parts ...and then it had double silver plated by Zig Kanstul. Third Valve throw added

Maybe someone could tell me the history behind these because they have quite different bell markings even thou th pineapple number is not two fr abort ..


Sorry but my French is rough, but the engraving is very deep still so I will do my best as long as I put my cheaters on.

They came my way via a collection by the great trumpet/flugelhorn collector Hall oringer after passed away in NY some time ago.

OK ...

first Row _ all centered on bell - First of 2 restored Couesnon of the collection

Banner with " expciotn universillede paris " this is a 3 part banner on the with the words stamped ins tide of them

medallion sysmbol 1900

HOUR CONCOURSE - membre de juror

Circle with logo ( CmC )

Couesnon and Cie - Large letters

foursseusiss del" armee ( small upper case #' )

94 rue D arguinelle
Paris
(Pinapple emblem) 28 inside
Firma
Korma-Korsmit
Maarichsict

My personal life now dictates I need to sell these 2 flugels ( one I put up next after some responses to this one ) so any information of this one or the next one I will post will be greatly appreciated.

Kingdigimon

Your description clarifies what is on my horn without the modifications except that I have the number 24 in the pinapple symbol.

I went and played it for the first time in over 2 years and frankly it has a great sound. Would modifications to the horn make it play that much better? If I modify the horn will it ultimately decrease the value of this vintage horn -- say like 30 or 40 years from now? Just thinking.

David

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David Allan