Silver Custom Crafted OLDS trumpet with Ultra Sonic Lead P.

study888 · 10-23-2005, 10:42 PM

Hello everyone. There were two recent e-bay auctions that just ended.One was a Silver Custom Crafted Trumpet with the Ultra Sonic Lead Pipe.The horn looked to be well cared for.It sold not counting shipping charges for $1025.00.

A Silver Olds Super Star trumpet also with the Ultra Sonic Lead Pipe that looked well cared for. Went for $330.00 plus shipping. My question's are. One: Are the Olds Custom crafted horns the best playing of the two? Two: Is the Custom Crafted better made?Three: What was the Ultra Sonic Lead Pipe all about?Four: How does the Olds Custom Crafted trumpets stack up against the Recording, Opera, Super are Studio trumpets etc. I notice that some of the last models of Supers and maybe Recording's and the Super Star had the Ultra Sonic lead pipe.Fifth: I wonder if this lead pipe improved the sound of the late model Supers over the Older ones? Would like to hear from all you Olds Fans.

Happy Canuck · 10-24-2005, 09:00 AM

1. there is no such thing as an UltraSonic leadpipe, it is an Ultrasonic bell! Check out the listings in this catalog http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/trumpets.htm and you will see the references to Bells, not Leadpipes. It's a common mistake. This is what R. Dale Olson said about the Ultrasonic process:

Quote:

The Ultra-Sonic Bell was a one-piece, seamless, bell, manufactured through an "explosion molding" process. In this, a tapered tube was inserted into a mold, with an explosive charge detonated within the tube. Upon explosion, the metal was forced to the approximate shape of the mold. A secondary process involved "spinning" the bell against a mandrel to achieve the final configuration.

This process was employed essentially because of economics. It was cheaper. Later, this process was replaced by "plasma welding", an even more economical process. Never were any musical characteristics, better or worse, associated with the different manufacturing processes.

2. Customs are a lightweight horn built in the last decade that Olds existed. They were designed by R. Dale Olson and Zig Kanstul. If you check the '66 catalog you can read all about the reason they are called 'Custom', http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds66/customkit.htm the buyer selected from 3 bells and 5 leadpipes to configure their custom order. In the later years they were a fixed configuration. Again from My. Olson:

Quote:

The early Custom concept was fascinating, but, as I have later learned, excessively complex for most players. The problem has to do with perceptual difficulties encountered when one is provided an excess number of choices. A choice between "chocolate" and "vanilla" ice cream is rather straightforward, whereas the choice between 25 different flavors becomes difficult. The custom trumpets had (to my recall at this time) five different leadpipes and three different bells. This produced 15 different variations of very similar trumpets. The subtle differences were often below the perceptual threshold of most players and, therefore, presented an excess number of choices. Many, many years later, I studied these issues as they relate to trumpet performance. Had I been apprised of these matters during the design of the Custom, I would have certainly restricted the number of permutations available.

The Custom eventually attained the status of a single model long after Zig and I both left the Olds Company. The resultant leadpipe and bell were quite probably the ones which Olds personnel felt were the most popular.

3. the Custom is a nice playing horn BUT depending on when it was made you may or may not have some issues. The Custom I bought in '79 had poor valves and needed to be fixed, again a common problem that Olds had around then. The silver plating also wasn't up to current standards. The final problem I've seen is the nylon valve guides wearing and letting the valve mis-align.

4. Great concept, poor execution! I still prefer my classic Olds horns but if I could find a good Custom I'd consider it! This one went far too high in my estimation!

Brian H. Smout · 10-25-2005, 04:07 AM

Hi HappyCanuck,

I hate to contradict but ......... Yes, Virginia there is an Ultrasonic leadpipe. I purchased mine from Centex Brass online for my Ambassador project. He may have one still listed at his online store. This l/p was used for the Custom, Silverstar and Opera models, to my uncertain knowledge. Nice sound with it and opens up the blow a bit.

Cheers,

Brian

Happy Canuck · 10-25-2005, 08:35 AM

Brian, it's not nice to contradict another Saskatchewan boy! (Estevan).

Yes, Clay(Centex) lists the leadpipes as Ultrasonic since most people don't know the real story. Again, if you look at the '77 catalog you'll see that the Ultrasonic references point to the bell, not leadpipe. And R. Dale Olson was the chief designer at Olds, you should trust him.

The part numbers for the horns changed when they had an Ultrasonic bell. Pre Ultrasonic they were -10, like M-10 for the Mendez, post Ultrasonic they were -12. The change happened in the early '70s.

You should consider that Ultrasonic is sort of like Benge's Resno Tempered, a marketing name.

Brian H. Smout · 10-25-2005, 11:19 AM

Hmmmm ... as I sip my Vico and chow down on some Sunny Boy while wearing my Riders bunny hug I'm confused. My leadpipe receiver has the same visual appearance of the Studio, Opera and Superstars in the catalogues but with the engraved Ultrasonic perjorative on it. Do you think that my l/p was originally intended to be installed on an instrument with an Ultrasonic bell and therefore had the engraved receiver to match?

Dazed and confused,

Brian

Happy Canuck · 10-25-2005, 01:19 PM

That's it! Interesting to use space on the leadpipe to put information about the bell manufacturing process but that's what they did!?

The visual appearance is on the mouthpiece receiver, not the leadpipe. The Opera and Studio trumpets had the same mp receiver BUT different leadpipes. The Opera had a nickle-silver l/p and the Studio had its own l/p. I don't have that information for the Superstar, but remember, it did replace the Studio.

Sort of cool out today in Toronto, think I'll go make some OXO. And it sure is easier to make Sunny Boy now with a microwave!

ML52K · 10-25-2005, 02:44 PM

Oh boy!! So I bought a leadpipe from Centex brass labeled "ultrasonic."

So, now, is there a difference between that leadpipe and the standard Ambassador leadpipe that I was thinking of replacing, or are they the same?

I was thinking I might get a leadpipe configuration that was more open, as the Ambassadors apparently respond to that change.

Heavens2kadonka · 10-25-2005, 03:24 PM

A lady who played in our band had "Ultrasonic" stamped on her MEDNEZ's reciever, if I remember correctly...

Van

dr-pepp · 10-25-2005, 03:39 PM

Someone emailed me about this discussion, so I thought I'd chime in. I did sell several of the posters in this thread "Ultra Sonic" leadpipes via ebay. As I recall, a year or so ago, I had someone aske me if I could get an ultra sonic leadpipe and I sorted through some parts catalogs and found them. I purchased a couple of them and there seemed to be interest in them, so I bought the remaining stock that I could find (12 or so) and am down to my last couple in my ebay store. The part is actually labeled as a "mouthpipe" in the Olds parts catalog... since it includes three parts that have been connected... the receiver, leadpipe, and outer tube for the tuning slide.

When I acquired the parts, I was also under the impression that this was a unique design, but somewhere along the way, Bill educated me as well and with the help of others, I think we narrowed these pipes down to being from the Super Star model. I also managed to find a couple of mouthpipes for the Custom trumpet and they also have Ultra Sonic on the receiver, but as Bill correctly points out, this is simply referring to the design of the bell on the trumpet. Here is a 1976 Olds Super of mine that has the same receiver and leadpipe of earlier Supers, but with UltraSonic engraved on the receiver. I would assume that the late model Mendez trumpets were the same.

I've installed one of the Super Star pipes (with ultra sonic engraved on the receiver) on an ambassador and it does open up the horn and I've had several others report similar results.

If anyone has purchased one of these from me and is unhappy that is isn't what you thought you were getting, email me and I'll be happy to refund your money and shipping charges if you want to return it.

Clay
aka Centex Brass

centex_brass@yahoo.com
http://stores.ebay.com/Centex-Brass

Happy Canuck · 10-25-2005, 03:56 PM

Ladies and Gents,

I value the relationship that I have built with Clay at Centex and never intended this to be a "He scammed me" message. He offered a product that the vendor (Olds) had labeled in an inappropriate way.

I have to ask "Why would did Olds engrave the mp receiver when they are referring to the bell???" Most likely, given the times, cheaper than engraving the bells?

As to which horns it will help ... only playing will help you understand that, just like with the Pilczuk pipes... When you take a look at the last year catalogs posted on Alan's Olds Central Site http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds.htm you should be able to understand which horns had Ultrasonic bells and therefore what leadpipes they had. Clay has some left, he will be glad to tell you the initial horn it was meant for if that information is available. He is trying to help not scam.

Understand, only the Ambassador and Special had the same leadpipe, all the other horns had l/p designed for them. As you moved up the family you got a better l/p, materials and time spent.

10-23-2005, 10:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
study888 Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 67	Silver Custom Crafted OLDS trumpet with Ultra Sonic Lead P. Hello everyone. There were two recent e-bay auctions that just ended.One was a Silver Custom Crafted Trumpet with the Ultra Sonic Lead Pipe.The horn looked to be well cared for.It sold not counting shipping charges for $1025.00. A Silver Olds Super Star trumpet also with the Ultra Sonic Lead Pipe that looked well cared for. Went for $330.00 plus shipping. My question's are. One: Are the Olds Custom crafted horns the best playing of the two? Two: Is the Custom Crafted better made?Three: What was the Ultra Sonic Lead Pipe all about?Four: How does the Olds Custom Crafted trumpets stack up against the Recording, Opera, Super are Studio trumpets etc. I notice that some of the last models of Supers and maybe Recording's and the Super Star had the Ultra Sonic lead pipe.Fifth: I wonder if this lead pipe improved the sound of the late model Supers over the Older ones? Would like to hear from all you Olds Fans.

10-25-2005, 04:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
Brian H. Smout Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Swift Current, Sask. Canada Posts: 127	Hi HappyCanuck, I hate to contradict but ......... Yes, Virginia there is an Ultrasonic leadpipe. I purchased mine from Centex Brass online for my Ambassador project. He may have one still listed at his online store. This l/p was used for the Custom, Silverstar and Opera models, to my uncertain knowledge. Nice sound with it and opens up the blow a bit. Cheers, Brian __________________ "Swift Current - where we're neither swift nor current"

10-25-2005, 08:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
Happy Canuck Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 174	Brian, it's not nice to contradict another Saskatchewan boy! (Estevan). Yes, Clay(Centex) lists the leadpipes as Ultrasonic since most people don't know the real story. Again, if you look at the '77 catalog you'll see that the Ultrasonic references point to the bell, not leadpipe. And R. Dale Olson was the chief designer at Olds, you should trust him. The part numbers for the horns changed when they had an Ultrasonic bell. Pre Ultrasonic they were -10, like M-10 for the Mendez, post Ultrasonic they were -12. The change happened in the early '70s. You should consider that Ultrasonic is sort of like Benge's Resno Tempered, a marketing name. __________________ Bill Olds Ambassador, Special, Super, Recording, Mendez Bb trumpets, Custom C trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M Olds Opera & Ambassador A6 Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B Olds L-12 Flugelhorn/GR Butcher 65.6FL Schilke MII Trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M If you have an Olds, go to http://www.theoldsregister.com/ and add data

10-25-2005, 11:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
Brian H. Smout Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Swift Current, Sask. Canada Posts: 127	Hmmmm ... as I sip my Vico and chow down on some Sunny Boy while wearing my Riders bunny hug I'm confused. My leadpipe receiver has the same visual appearance of the Studio, Opera and Superstars in the catalogues but with the engraved Ultrasonic perjorative on it. Do you think that my l/p was originally intended to be installed on an instrument with an Ultrasonic bell and therefore had the engraved receiver to match? Dazed and confused, Brian __________________ "Swift Current - where we're neither swift nor current"

10-25-2005, 01:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Happy Canuck Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 174	That's it! Interesting to use space on the leadpipe to put information about the bell manufacturing process but that's what they did!? The visual appearance is on the mouthpiece receiver, not the leadpipe. The Opera and Studio trumpets had the same mp receiver BUT different leadpipes. The Opera had a nickle-silver l/p and the Studio had its own l/p. I don't have that information for the Superstar, but remember, it did replace the Studio. Sort of cool out today in Toronto, think I'll go make some OXO. And it sure is easier to make Sunny Boy now with a microwave! __________________ Bill Olds Ambassador, Special, Super, Recording, Mendez Bb trumpets, Custom C trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M Olds Opera & Ambassador A6 Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B Olds L-12 Flugelhorn/GR Butcher 65.6FL Schilke MII Trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M If you have an Olds, go to http://www.theoldsregister.com/ and add data

10-25-2005, 02:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
ML52K New Friend Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Adirondacks Posts: 7	Oh boy!! So I bought a leadpipe from Centex brass labeled "ultrasonic." So, now, is there a difference between that leadpipe and the standard Ambassador leadpipe that I was thinking of replacing, or are they the same? I was thinking I might get a leadpipe configuration that was more open, as the Ambassadors apparently respond to that change.

10-25-2005, 03:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
Heavens2kadonka Forte User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Carthage, TN Posts: 1,283	A lady who played in our band had "Ultrasonic" stamped on her MEDNEZ's reciever, if I remember correctly... Van __________________ Stage 1 California Light '94 Bach Strad 37 1900 Eb Cornet LOUD Steve Patrick 10 1/2 C LOUD LM93

10-25-2005, 03:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
dr-pepp New Friend Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	Someone emailed me about this discussion, so I thought I'd chime in. I did sell several of the posters in this thread "Ultra Sonic" leadpipes via ebay. As I recall, a year or so ago, I had someone aske me if I could get an ultra sonic leadpipe and I sorted through some parts catalogs and found them. I purchased a couple of them and there seemed to be interest in them, so I bought the remaining stock that I could find (12 or so) and am down to my last couple in my ebay store. The part is actually labeled as a "mouthpipe" in the Olds parts catalog... since it includes three parts that have been connected... the receiver, leadpipe, and outer tube for the tuning slide. When I acquired the parts, I was also under the impression that this was a unique design, but somewhere along the way, Bill educated me as well and with the help of others, I think we narrowed these pipes down to being from the Super Star model. I also managed to find a couple of mouthpipes for the Custom trumpet and they also have Ultra Sonic on the receiver, but as Bill correctly points out, this is simply referring to the design of the bell on the trumpet. Here is a 1976 Olds Super of mine that has the same receiver and leadpipe of earlier Supers, but with UltraSonic engraved on the receiver. I would assume that the late model Mendez trumpets were the same. I've installed one of the Super Star pipes (with ultra sonic engraved on the receiver) on an ambassador and it does open up the horn and I've had several others report similar results. If anyone has purchased one of these from me and is unhappy that is isn't what you thought you were getting, email me and I'll be happy to refund your money and shipping charges if you want to return it. Clay aka Centex Brass centex_brass@yahoo.com http://stores.ebay.com/Centex-Brass

10-25-2005, 03:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Happy Canuck Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 174	Ladies and Gents, I value the relationship that I have built with Clay at Centex and never intended this to be a "He scammed me" message. He offered a product that the vendor (Olds) had labeled in an inappropriate way. I have to ask "Why would did Olds engrave the mp receiver when they are referring to the bell???" Most likely, given the times, cheaper than engraving the bells? As to which horns it will help ... only playing will help you understand that, just like with the Pilczuk pipes... When you take a look at the last year catalogs posted on Alan's Olds Central Site http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds.htm you should be able to understand which horns had Ultrasonic bells and therefore what leadpipes they had. Clay has some left, he will be glad to tell you the initial horn it was meant for if that information is available. He is trying to help not scam. Understand, only the Ambassador and Special had the same leadpipe, all the other horns had l/p designed for them. As you moved up the family you got a better l/p, materials and time spent. __________________ Bill Olds Ambassador, Special, Super, Recording, Mendez Bb trumpets, Custom C trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M Olds Opera & Ambassador A6 Shepherds Crook cornets/Sparx 4B Olds L-12 Flugelhorn/GR Butcher 65.6FL Schilke MII Trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M If you have an Olds, go to http://www.theoldsregister.com/ and add data

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