ChaseFan

The vintage Holton Super Collegiate instruments of the 1950’s and 1960’s are becoming increasingly popular, but I have never seen a detailed history of them.
Here is what I have learned from my own experience and observation.

The original Holton Super Collegiates of the mid-1950’s had Brass bells with Nickel bell flares.

An eBay seller (I can't remember which one) told me that his 1955 Holton Super Collegiate cornet with Brass bell and Nickel bell flare had a .465 bore.
When I expressed surprise at that, he said that Holton reduced the bore size from .465 to .460 when Holton changed the Super Collegiate from Brass bell to Copper bell.
I wish someone with one of those early Brass-belled Super Collegiate cornets would measure the bore size to see if it really did have a .465 bore.

Also, the Super Collegiate cornets with Copper bells had approximately 5-1/8” bell diameters.
I wish someone with the earlier Brass-belled Super Collegiate cornet would measure the bell diameter and tell us if it was approximately 4-5/8” diameter rather than the 5-1/8” bell diameter of the Copper-belled version.

Exactly when did Holton change the Super Collegiates from Brass bell to Copper bell?

Something I noticed earlier this year helps to narrow when Holton changed the Super Collegiates:

Serial number 286496, near the beginning of 1956, did *not* have a copper bell in this eBay ad:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOLTON-SUPER-COL...|39:1|240:1318

Serial number 293424, near the end of 1956, *did* have a copper bell in this eBay ad:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOLTON-SUPER-COL...1%7C240%3A1318

The markings on Holton Super Collegiates also went through an evolution.

An eBay Super Collegiate cornet from around 1960 had “Super Collegiate” engraved on the Copper bell.

One or two eBay Super Collegiates from a couple of years later had only “Collegiate” engraved on the Copper bell, while the word “Super” was engraved on the mouthpiece receiver.

I once owned a 1965 Super Collegiate cornet which had only “Collegiate” engraved on the bell, the word “Super” did not appear anywhere on the cornet, and it had a Rose bell with Nickel bell flare. The Rose bell definitely was redder than the Brass valve cluster, but it was a lighter red than the pure Copper bell of the Super Collegiates from the late 1950’s and early 1960’s.
The Rose bell was exactly the same color as the Rose bell of the 1962 Holton Model 28 cornet that is presently on ebay at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Two Holton Super Collegiate trumpets with Copper bells and Nickel bell flares, both from 1957, can be seen halfway down the Web page at the Holton Loyalist Web page at
http://www.holtonloyalist.com/trumpets.htm
Click on the photos to get much larger photos.

Trumpet Master member “Newguy” (Bernie) gave a link to photos of his matching Super Collegiate trumpet and cornet:
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.p...xztz1m&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.p...31tljt&thumb=5
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.p...xajdxd&thumb=5
(links are from his post at http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140...net-41183.html (1957 Holton Super Collegiate Cornet) )


I do not know the exact year that Holton started making the Super Collegiates.
I only know that I have seen the above-mentioned Super Collegiate trumpets / cornets that represent 1955 through 1965.

This current eBay ad shows an 1954 Holton Super Collegiate trombone with Brass bell and Nickel bell flare, but I don’t know if the Super Collegiate trumpets / cornets were also made in 1954:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1954-HOLTON-SUPE...08197002r27306

This current eBay ad shows a beautiful Super Collegiate trombone with copper bell at
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOLTON-SUPER-COL...d=p3286.c0.m14

A 1957 Holton Super Collegiate trombone with Copper bell and Nickel bell flare can be seen at the Horn-u-copia Web site at
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/picture....one-300535.jpg
That is a link from
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/display....%22Trombone%22
which gives the particulars about the trombone.

Does anybody know if Holton made anything other than trumpets, cornets, and trombones in its Super Collegiate line?
I would have sworn that I once saw reference to a Super Collegiate saxophone, but I must be mistaken because I can find no reference to it now.

Dean

Ursa

My Super Collegiate trumpet, S/N 293344, has a copper/nickel bell.

My Super Collegiate cornet, S/N 371173, has the same bell engraving as a standard Collegiate. "SUPER" is engraved in block letters on the mouthpiece receiver. The bell measures 4 7/8" in diameter.

Both have a sound and feel all their own. When put in top playing condition, they are extremely rewarding to play. Play one and you'll understand.

__________________
Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds...
Besson BE709 Trumpet
Conn 20B Trumpet - small bore
E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet, Copper/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Collegiate Cornet
Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium
Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba

ChaseFan

Then that narrows it down further.

Serial number 286496, near the beginning of 1956, did *not* have a copper bell.

Serial number 293344. later in 1956, *did* have a copper bell.

The change from Brass bell to Copper bell happened somwhere in that period in 1956.

Serial number 371173 is from 1963 according to Holton Loyalist at
Holton Loyalist.com - Serial Numbers

I knew I had seen such trumpets / cornets on eBay, but I didn't remember the years they were made, so your example is helpful in nailing down when such examples were made with the word "Super" being moved from the bell to the mouthpiece receiver.

Does your 1963 Super Collegiate have a medium-dark red bell indicating pure Copper, or is it a very light-red Rose bell like the 1965 Super Collegiate?

By the way, I forgot to mention in my original post that I have repeatedly seen the claim that Al Hirt assisted Hoton in re-designing the Super Collegiate to have the Copper bell in 1956, but I don't know if that oft-repeated claim is true.

Dean

Ursa

I just parked the cornet next to the trumpet, and the trumpet bell tail has a deeper copper hue than that of the cornet. Both have their original lacquer intact.

Perhaps the brass and copper models were produced concurrently for a time.

__________________
Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds...
Besson BE709 Trumpet
Conn 20B Trumpet - small bore
E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet, Copper/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Collegiate Cornet
Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium
Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba

ChaseFan

If the bell of your 1963 Super Collegiate is redder than that same cornet's Brass valve casings, but the 1963 bell is not as red as the Copper bell of your 1956 Super Collegiate, it sounds like it might be a Rose bell that is also seen on this 1965 Super Collegiate cornet
Holton Collegiate Trumpet - eBay (item 160360321780 end time Sep-10-09 19:27:26 PDT)
and on this 1962 Holton Model 28 cornet
Vintage Holton Model 28 Pro Cornet Tri-Metal ca 1962 - eBay (item 370257261352 end time Sep-14-09 23:05:43 PDT)

In both of the above examples, compare the color of the Rose bell to the color of the Brass valve casings.
The Rose is definitely redder than the yellow Brass.

The Rose brass does do a good job of mellowing the cornet's tone,
although the pure Copper of the earlier Super Collegiates probably mellows the tone even more.

I forgot to ask, what is the bell diameter of your 1963 Super Collegiate cornet?
Were they still approximately 5-1/8" diameter?

Dean

Ursa

My '63 Super cornet looks exactly the same as the '65 on the eBay listing. If you look at the closeup of the mouthpiece receiver, you can make out the SU in SUPER; the PER would extend to the right but was cut off on this image. The hue of the bell tail is identical.

I hope they relist this one with a lower opening bid.

The bell on mine measures 4 7/8".

__________________
Ursa's collection of fine brasswinds...
Besson BE709 Trumpet
Conn 20B Trumpet - small bore
E. K. Blessing XL-CR Short Cornet
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet, Copper/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Super Collegiate Cornet, Rose Brass/Nickel bell
Frank Holton Collegiate Cornet
Yamaha YEP-321S Euphonium
Frank Holton 6/4 EEb Tuba