JRFIII

I recently joined a reenactment U.S. Civil War Regimental Band. Found an old cornet at a local antique shop for $100. Since I wasn't sure I'd stay in the band I thought I'd pick it up since it would pass the 10 ft. test (look like an almost authentic period piece from ten feet) at least.

I get it home, clean it up, replace the springs felts and get the mouthpiece pulled and now love how it plays. It looks very nice as well. POlished up very very well. Looked like an old penny when I got it.

Problem is, there are no serial numbers or decorative engravings to tell me who made it.

The Valves are numbered externally as 7, 8 and 9. This would correspond to valves 1 through 3 on a current U.S. made cornet.

Shepards crook. Raw brass, never lacquered. "S" shaped tube from leadpipe to third valve. with two tuning slides. I've only seen this configuration in pictures of early 20th century Conn Perfected Wonder, Perfect Wondor Circus Bore, and some Buescher cornets.

It looks more like the Conn than the Buescher in most respects, as the third valve (or should I say 9th valve slide in this case...) is straight and not angeled as in the Buescher models I've seen on the web.

The only other engraving is on the leadpipe, and it is a fintly stamped as "France." It appears to have been accidently double struck by hand.

Anyone here have suggestions for good resources for me to go to to research this further?

MFfan

Could you post some Pics? Have to be from a web site like Photobucket, Flickr, etc. You could look around Horn-u-copia. Kind of hard with out a name on it. I saw under the D listings of other makers one DuBois cornet, which has the leadpipe configuration you state and is a shepherds' crook, and a little commentary.

I would also try default and check out photos and info of what old cornets they have to see if you find anything similar.

__________________
Dave Rafferty
07 Barrington Trumpet, 1972 Reynolds Medalist
55 Besson 8-10 trumpet
55 Roth by Reynolds Cornet
73 Olds Ambassador Cornet
30's Czech small bore Trumpet
Getzen 80 cornet, 33 American Standard cornet
66 Olds Ambassador Trumpet
www.kalamazooconcertband.org

Dale Proctor

You see a lot of cornets from the ca. 1910 era with that wrap. It must have been a popular style during that time. Without any other markings, a positive identification is probably impossible.

About it passing the 10 ft. test....maybe to the general public, but not to anyone who knows historic instruments. Cornets during that period would have been rotary-valved about 99% of the time, and practically none would have had water keys. A true Civil War era forward -facing cornet would look more like these:

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

screamingmorris

Poor Dale having to settle for such old cornets.
Let's take up a collection so that he can afford to get something newer that's "band-approved"

- Morris

Dale Proctor

Thanks, Morris......but only one of those cornets is mine, the third from the left, top row. The others belong to our band leader (and that picture is old - he has more than that, now, in addition to 4 or 5 over-the-shoulder cornets). If the collection nets enough, I'll take a new Besson Prestige cornet.

Here's mine, a Henry Lehnert:

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

JRFIII

MFFan, thanks for the other link and the look at the Dubois. But I don't think that is it either. Tomorrow I'll take some pictures and post.

Dale, I am well aware that it is not a period piece for the reenactment group. But I have to see how many gigs we get, if the band even continues to be viable, while I manage a budget for all the uniform equipment, my three kids in college, before I even considering laying out the money to have the"right" horn anyway. Besides, most of the period horns available in my price range play like dirt anyway. At this point, I'd rather play in the group and expose others to the period music, rather than worry about the sitch Nazis in the reeanctment groups and the other "purists." I think it is equally important to expose the general public to the history and draw them in to enjoy the music, rather than play to the already fully engaged history buffs.

Also, I'd be interested if you could show me, Dale, any other manufacturers from the turn of the century that have the "S" configuration with two tuning slides in the "S" other than Conn and Buescher. Everything I've seen here, at horn-u-copia and links from the national music museum and public/private collection sites show no other. But if you have specific knowledge of others, please share.

After all, I asked to have some help identifying the cornet I have. That is the thread I am pursuing here. Not a thread about being farby Vs pard. Of course, if you want to donate a period piece I'd accept.

Dale Proctor

Geeze, man, I didn't mean to get on your bad side. You're the one who said "looks like an almost authentic period piece from ten feet". Obviously, you know the difference between a period horn and one that isn't, so enough of that lecture.....and you're right - many period horns play badly.

As for being a "stitch Nazi" and "purist", I'm probably somewhat of a purist when it comes to the music and instruments, but I'm surely no stitch Nazi. Modern instruments are fine to start out on (I did the same), but the sound is completely different with period instruments. Part of exposing people to period music is the unique sound of the band. I'm sure if your band is successful, you will gravitate in that direction.

Now, to address your search for a cornet I.D. - dig a little deeper on Horn-u-copia. I knew I had seen numerous pics of cornets with this wrap over the years. I just now went there and perused the alphabetical listing for manufacturers, checking out the "Cornet" section of each one. The first I saw, (and I didn't open all of them, just some likely suspects) was Bohland & Fuchs. Here's the link to get you started:

Horn-u-copia public forum discussing antique, obscure and out-of-production Brass Instruments

There are also cornets with this wrap under Boosey & Co., Cousenon, Distin, Fischer, Gautrot, and so on....you get my point? Concentrate on the French makers and you may find what you're looking for. They will probably all be from around the 1910-1920 era. Good luck with your endeavour.

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

screamingmorris

OK, I'll admit my ignorance because curiosity has gotten the better of me.
I have no idea what those expressions mean; I have never heard those expressions before.

What is a "sitch Nazi" and what is "farby Vs pard"?

I feel like Granny on a favorite episode of "Beverly Hillbillies".
Some guy used some high-fallutin words that Granny had never heard before, so Granny turned to Jed with a perplexed look on her face and asked, "Does that mean he's fer it er agin it?"

- Morris

Dale Proctor

In the historical reenactment community, a stitch Nazi is literally someone who expects reproduction uniforms to be period-correct, even down to how many and what type of stitches are used to sew the garment together. A broader definition is someone who demands authenticity in everything used in a reenactment. Something is "farby" when it is pretty obviously not period-correct, like a Civil War reenactor wearing a wristwatch, or a Civil War brass band using modern trumpets and saxophones.... There's disagreement where the term came from, but that's what it means. Now, "pard", I have no idea. I'm not into reenacting heavy duty, and I've never heard the term. Maybe JRFIII can chime in and enlighten both of us.

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

screamingmorris

Dale did *not* change the subject of your thread.

Dale responded to the following statement in your first post above: "Since I wasn't sure I'd stay in the band I thought I'd pick it up since it would pass the 10 ft. test (look like an almost authentic period piece from ten feet) at least."

Dale politely stated that your instrument from the early 1900's could not be mistaken for a Civil War era instrument and he explained why.
If you did not want Dale to respond to that part of your post then you should not have included that statement in your post.

Also, the casual throwing around of the word "Nazi" in this forum is not acceptable.
Nazis were hateful cold-blooded mass murderers.
Members of Civil War bands who try to be authentic might irritate you, but they are *not* "Nazis".

- Morris