Mizzoulax

I'm not a music person. I'm a lacrosse coach.

I have my great grandfather's trumpet, which I am interested in selling. I'm writing in the hopes that you know either a buyer or a price range or can point me in the direction of someone who would? I have done a bit of research on it, and believe I have the correct make/model/year, etc.

To the best of my knowlege, I have a 1927? Conn 18b C, Bb and A low pitch only silver plated trumpet. I am not sure of the date for a couple of reasons. First, I'm not sure I have the serial number right, the serial number, off the number 2 valve casing is 242263, although there are serial numbers on the slides and other pieces. Additionally, I'm not confident that the first number is a 2, as it is a larger number than the other numbers and there is some corrosion of the silver plating there. Secondly, (unfortunately), my great grandfather engraved his name on the trumpet (A. Hawkins), and he died in 1930 at the age of 78. So having a 1927 trumpet when he was 75 dosn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, but who knows. I read online that this particular trumpet cost about the same as a ford car at the time, and he was a baptist minister, so there's a lot about it that dosn't make a lot of sense. I've been told it is signed by Conn.(that part is definately a deeper cut and is script) I've also been told it was a 1908 model, but only by a music student at Mizzou. (although 1908 makes more sense genealogically to me than 1927)

I have numerous extra slides, including a fancy one with a circular revolving "switch" that changes the trumpet from a "Bb" to a "A" trumpet, a music holder that screws into the trumpet, an aluminum mute, 2 mouthpieces (one of which seems incomplete, it has screws on the inside of the part that touches the lips like there was something that screws into it), and some other little things. All this in the original, intact and sturdy case.

The trumpet itself is relatively free from dings and dents with 2 exceptions. The smallest slide, on the outside of the number 2 valve is dented fairly severely. Also the horn itself is dented to a bit of an angle at the point where the bell is connected to the trumpet. My great grandfather did have his name engraved on it also. The finish is very very dirty, and is worn off in 3 places where the hands clearly hold the trumpet.

Please contact me either through the email I registered on this forum with or at Mizzoulax@aol.com

Kyle Hawkins
Head Coach
University of Missouri
Men's Lacrosse Program

JDWildcat

If you haven't already done so, check out the Conn Loyalist website for more info on the trumpet. www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/

Mizzoulax

Thanks for that. I've also searched ebay trying to get an idea, but I've only found 28b or much later model 18b trumpets, and have not found any that modify to the A and C trumpets as well as the Bb trumpets. Additionally most that I've found were brass or copper or gold, very few silver. I'd like to know what fair prices might be. I'm not looking to stick anyone, but on the other hand, I don't want to get the shaft either. I had an offer from a guy who wanted to drill holes through it and put it up in his restaurant ala Applebees, but I'd rather this trumpet find a musical home. Any help is appreciated, on this forum or by email.

Kyle Hawkins
Head Coach
University of Missouri
Men's Lacrosse Program

tom turner

Hi Coach, and WELCOME to the Vintage Horns Forum!

This Conn is indeed a 1927 model and I am well-familiar with it.

Conn lettered all their trumpets with a "B," (Cornets were "A," French Horns ended in "D," and so on.

You also indeed have a fairly early 18B trumpet. I once had one about the same year as yours, and in the identical configuration.

I purchased it to have a "poor man's C trumpet," but found out the horn didn't play well in C, with terrible intonation problems that couldn't be ironed out.

It played much better in the key that the trumpet was actually designed around . . . the key of Bb. As you know, the "funky" tuning slide that has the little rotary valve is the Bb slide and the rotary valve drops the horn into the key of "A."

The trumpet should also have two complete sets of valve slides with it. The shorter ones are when using the "C" tuning slide so that the valve combination slides will the the correct length for a C trumpet.

The longer valve slides are for Bb. Pull the 1st or 3rd valve Bb slides out a little, and you'll also see little round grooves notched into the inner legs of each slide. These mark where to pull these slides when you play the trumpet in the key of "A." If you don't pull them and make 'em a little longer (and in the correct proportion, the trumpet wouldn't play in tune in "A!"

The horn should also have it's original black Conn case, which will have spots that hold all the extra valve slides and tuning slide, no matter which key you have the trumpet set up for!

It also came with a spot that holds a Conn metal straight mute, plus the other things you mentioned including two mouthpieces.

I suspect that one of the mouthpieces (missing a rim part) was one of the Conn "visible embouchere" mouthpieces that they touted back then. It came with a clear, reddish rim. I suspect the rim deteriorated or got broken, although they were pretty tough.

HOPE THIS HELPS!


THE VALUE?

This is really hard to know, unless you can post some JPEGs. Even then, it is hard to guess without checking out how it blows, and if the valves have good compression.

If the valves are worn out (and leak compression), a valve job cost about $300. So, you'd have to subtract $300 off the value of a nice speciment that didn't need a valve job.

If I were to guess, and the valves were the typical "ok but not great," and if the horn didn't show signs of bad damage and the slides all were free . . .

A VERY ROUGH GUESS FOR VALUE . . .
In silverplate (mainly intact) I'd guess about $250-$300 would be what it would bring on ebay with good photos included. Then again, some horns bring less . . . and others bring a lot more, depending on condition (including the case and accessories being intact).

Sadly, the 18B trumpets of that vintage were sort of like "adjustable wrenches" in a mechanic's tool box. In other words, they did several things "ok," but didn't excel in any particular key. I didn't keep mine too long, but then again, I bought it as a "player," not as a collectable.

AS A COLLECTABLE . . . it does have some strong merit if in really nice shape! Older, mature owners tend to baby their horns vs. school kids who drop 'em and abuse many of the vintage horns seen today.

If the horn looks really nice, it also looks really cool and different with the Bb/A slide in it!!!

Don't fret for a moment about a person's name engraved well on the bell! To me, this usually shouts "This horn was owned by an adult!" That's not a bad thing when shopping for a vintage horn!!!

I hope this helps! I'm sure your grandfather had many wonderful hours making music on this nice old Conn trumpet. Conn was the largest maker of band instruments back in those days, and they make a lot of models of horns. It would probably require a person to be a millionaire in order to collect every model they made back then!

Here's a neat vintage horn website, with cool photos . . . and links to Paul Aylick's wonderful vintage trumpet site that specializes in Conn. You'll have fun checking it out.

Also, there's a link for Rich Ita's website. He's a vintage instrument restorer of note, and he can give you a lot more information about your horn than I can!

http://www.vintagecornets.com

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

PS: Here's a link to Paul's site, with gorgeous photos from a great photographer/trumpeter: http://www.paulayickvintagebrass.com/

Mizzoulax

That was all very helpful. You're very good, too - that extra mouthpiece does indeed say "visible embouchere" on the side.

I have one more question. I collect foreign coins, and to clean or polish an old coin is a terrible sin. Would I reduce the value of the trumpet to get some silver polish and clean it up for the photos on ebay or would I be better off leaving it to be done by a professional, after it is purchased?

I would show pictures on here, but I don't know how to do that.

Dale Proctor

For some reason, polishing the "patina" from a silver-plated horn doesn't negatively affect its value. In fact, it will sell easier and for more if it looks like new. I'd get out the liquid silver polish and get busy!

Lacquer is a different matter. If the lacquer on a vintage horn is in decent shape (even if it's discolored or worn off in places), the collector value of a horn is usually reduced if the lacquer is removed or redone.

tom turner

Yes, by all means POLISH IT!

Specifically, get a bottle of 3M's "Tarnishield" silver polish to do the job. Tarnishield has a tarnish inhibitor that really slows down future build ups and most folks use it.

BTW, I suspect the INSIDE of the bell is not silver . . . but is actually a "gold wash." Many of the Conns did this and the look is gorgeous.



Because the gold wash is a very light plating of gold over the silverplate, silver polish will buff it off in fairly short order . . . leaving the inner bell increasingly lighter in yellow.

So, if it IS gold wash, try two things to bring out this desirable luster.

1. First, if the horn is tarnished and dirty, polish the silver parts only.

2. Then, after the silver looks great, CLEAN the inner bell part (that's visible in gold wash) with a light coating of WD-40. Just rub it on with your finger tips, gently working it into the surface. After a couple of minutes, GENTLY wipe it off with a soft cotton cloth. This will make it look GORGEOUS and it will look really nice.

3. Finally, if you wish, lightly wipe some "Tarnishield" silver polish onto the inner bell. DO NOT BUFF, but allow it to totally dry.

Let is sit on the gold wash part for a few hours . . . for the Tarnishield's ingredients will actually brighten the silver underparts but not take off the gold this way.

Then, gently rise all the residue off with water . . . gently wiping it off under running water with your fingertips only.

Once the residue is off, PAT DRY ONLY with a soft cotton cloth.

Hope this helps,

Tom

tom turner

PS: If you store your photos on line, you can easily post them here.

1. Go to the site and open the picture.

2. Highlight the location of the photo in the "Properties" section and "copy."

3. "Paste" that url location in your reply whereever you want it to go.

4. Immediately in front of the URL, type the following: [img]

Make sure that there are no spaces after the [img] and the beginning of the URL link.

5. At the end of the link, WITH NO SPACES, type: [/img]


You can then hit the "Preview Post" button just below where you are typing and make sure the photo displays. Then hit "Submit Reply" and the photos will show up!!!

T.

Mizzoulax

I finally got around to cleaning up the trumpet and placing it on ebay. Check it out if you can, and let me know if I need to add anything in order to sell it. (or bid if you like) lol.

Kyle Hawkins
Head Coach
University of Missouri
Men's Lacrosse Program