What is this?

kcmt01 · 10-01-2009, 01:23 PM

shopgoodwill.com - #5307699 - Tested Marching Baritone Horn Ultratone II - - 10/7/2009 4:00:00 PM

Normally I would never post an auction horn, but this is something I've never seen before. Two valves???

kc

Dale Proctor · 10-01-2009, 01:44 PM

Bugle corps instrument. There are older ones that have only one valve, too.

kcmt01 · 10-01-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Proctor

Bugle corps instrument. There are older ones that have only one valve, too.

So, you play it like a bugle, using the valves to change key?

MFfan · 10-01-2009, 04:08 PM

Basically, you play it like a normal baritone or euphonium and use the two valves to change the note pitches, which is what I think you mean. They have a different fingering system for the notes they can play, because of the 2 valves. I recall the old 2 and one valve bugles could not play every note in the standard scale, so arrangements had to reflect that limitation.

kcmt01 · 10-01-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFfan

Basically, you play it like a normal baritone or euphonium and use the two valves to change the note pitches, which is what I think you mean. They have a different fingering system for the notes they can play, because of the 2 valves. I recall the old 2 and one valve bugles could not play every note in the standard scale, so arrangements had to reflect that limitation.

Well, I still don't get how it works. If it's just a bugle corps, doesn't that mean you are limited to bugle tunes like taps, or tattoo, or to the flag? And maybe hold a key down to change to a lower key? For instance, when I play taps at a funeral, and I know the deceased is a devoted Christian, I will play with the first and second valves and at the end of taps segue into Amazing Grace, which is in the key of G concert.

Probably nobody cares about this but me. I am, after all, a vary curious fellow. I know I can never know it all, but...........

missmybaby · 10-02-2009, 01:23 AM

Forget a gym membership and tanning salons... Buy it, run around a football field out in the hot sun playing it for hours on end through an entire summer and you'll be the most tan and ripped dude in school in the fall. As far as missing a valve, heck, that was the music arranger's problem, not ours. We just did what we were told.

operagost · 10-05-2009, 12:04 PM

These bugles used only one or two valves for the sake of tradition. It can be argued that bugles are bugles not because they "don't have valves", but because of their shape (mostly conical) and function (used in the field). Drum and Bugle corps did original use traditional bugles. At some point, they added a surreptitious piston or rotor valve in order to change key (I believe it dropped the pitch a fourth). Later, a second valve was added (so the bugles had one rotor and one piston; later two pistons) and valves one and two dropped the pitch by a second and a minor second, respectively. Finally, in the 1990s, essentially all three valve brass instruments became legal. The baritone you see here differs from standard marching baritones only in the key (probably G instead of Bb) and "missing" third valve. Basically, when writing for these horns, you had to transpose to G and rewrite any pitches that would require the third valve. Look up dci.org and dcacorps.org.

kcmt01 · 10-05-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by operagost

These bugles used only one or two valves for the sake of tradition. It can be argued that bugles are bugles not because they "don't have valves", but because of their shape (mostly conical) and function (used in the field). Drum and Bugle corps did original use traditional bugles. At some point, they added a surreptitious piston or rotor valve in order to change key (I believe it dropped the pitch a fourth). Later, a second valve was added (so the bugles had one rotor and one piston; later two pistons) and valves one and two dropped the pitch by a second and a minor second, respectively. Finally, in the 1990s, essentially all three valve brass instruments became legal. The baritone you see here differs from standard marching baritones only in the key (probably G instead of Bb) and "missing" third valve. Basically, when writing for these horns, you had to transpose to G and rewrite any pitches that would require the third valve. Look up dci.org and dcacorps.org.

Thanks! Great explanation of an obscure subject.

a marching trumpet · 10-08-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmt01

Well, I still don't get how it works. If it's just a bugle corps, doesn't that mean you are limited to bugle tunes like taps, or tattoo, or to the flag? And maybe hold a key down to change to a lower key? For instance, when I play taps at a funeral, and I know the deceased is a devoted Christian, I will play with the first and second valves and at the end of taps segue into Amazing Grace, which is in the key of G concert.

Probably nobody cares about this but me. I am, after all, a vary curious fellow. I know I can never know it all, but...........

Its just in a different key, you can play the same notes its just different thats all, two valves are still pretty cool

10-01-2009, 01:23 PM	#1
kcmt01 Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Polson, MT Posts: 81	What is this? shopgoodwill.com - #5307699 - Tested Marching Baritone Horn Ultratone II - - 10/7/2009 4:00:00 PM Normally I would never post an auction horn, but this is something I've never seen before. Two valves??? kc

10-01-2009, 01:44 PM	#2
Dale Proctor Forte User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 1,125	Re: What is this? Bugle corps instrument. There are older ones that have only one valve, too. __________________ Olde Towne Brass www.otbrass.com Brass Band of Huntsville www.brassbandofhuntsville.org "Hit it hard and wish it well." - Claude Gordon

10-01-2009, 04:08 PM	#4
MFfan Forte User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 1,690	Re: What is this? Basically, you play it like a normal baritone or euphonium and use the two valves to change the note pitches, which is what I think you mean. They have a different fingering system for the notes they can play, because of the 2 valves. I recall the old 2 and one valve bugles could not play every note in the standard scale, so arrangements had to reflect that limitation. __________________ Dave Rafferty Lemar Trumpet (peashooter-Conn?) Lyrical Trumpet (Tokan) Besson 609 Trumpet 1955-60 Besson 8-10 Trumpet 1948 Besson cornet 1946 King Master Cornet www.kalamazooconcertband.org

10-02-2009, 01:23 AM	#6
missmybaby New Friend Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 40	Re: What is this? Forget a gym membership and tanning salons... Buy it, run around a football field out in the hot sun playing it for hours on end through an entire summer and you'll be the most tan and ripped dude in school in the fall. As far as missing a valve, heck, that was the music arranger's problem, not ours. We just did what we were told.

10-05-2009, 12:04 PM	#7
operagost Piano User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Phoenixville, PA, USA Posts: 293	Re: What is this? These bugles used only one or two valves for the sake of tradition. It can be argued that bugles are bugles not because they "don't have valves", but because of their shape (mostly conical) and function (used in the field). Drum and Bugle corps did original use traditional bugles. At some point, they added a surreptitious piston or rotor valve in order to change key (I believe it dropped the pitch a fourth). Later, a second valve was added (so the bugles had one rotor and one piston; later two pistons) and valves one and two dropped the pitch by a second and a minor second, respectively. Finally, in the 1990s, essentially all three valve brass instruments became legal. The baritone you see here differs from standard marching baritones only in the key (probably G instead of Bb) and "missing" third valve. Basically, when writing for these horns, you had to transpose to G and rewrite any pitches that would require the third valve. Look up dci.org and dcacorps.org. __________________ 2006 Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS 1987 Conn 100B "Doc Severinsen" 1946 Conn 22B "New York Symphony"

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