HenriS

In Vaughan Williams's 3rd Symphony (Lento moderato movement) he asks for a Natural Trumpet in Eb, and I guess he's looking for the same slightly out-of-tune harmonics that you hear in Benjamin Britten's Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings.
My question is - what equipment would you use to play this?
Thanks!

jsnfmn

In a pinch, you could always use your Bb, all three valves down and the third slide out enough to lower another half step and voila! You've got yourself a low Eb Trumpet!

amtrpt

Hi,
jsnfmn is absolutely right. Learning to kick your third slide to get to a low concert Eb on Bb trumpet is a very important skill. There are several of examples of this through out the repertoire. Strauss Ein Heldenleben's 1st and 2nd Eb trumpet parts and Bizet's Carmen prelude are some good examples.

Andrew

jsnfmn

I think this excerpt is particularly interesting though as instead of pushing out the third slide just to get the low concert Eb, in the Vaughan Williams that note is not called for at all, and the solo in fact goes fairly high, a concert Bb above the staff.

I don't have a score in front of me but the similar solo horn passage in the same movement is reprinted in Norman Del Mar's Anatomy of the Orchestra and at the bottom of the score Vaughan Williams makes the following remark:

"It is essential that this passage be played on a real F Horn and that only natural notes be used to secure the true intonation of the Bb (7th partial) and the D (9th partial)"

Anyways, it's a cool piece and not played as often as his other symphonies so hopefully you're asking this question to prepare for a performance?

Jason

HenriS

Thanks for those replies, guys.

Jason, I'm not preparing for a performance, unfortunately! I was just reading the CD liner notes to an old recording I have (London Philharmonic Orchestra, Adrian Boult) where it said,

The second movement features two evocative solos for brass instruments (first trumpet , then horn) - the calls of a distant bugler practising. The composer specifies that the players are to use the "open" notes of their instruments, in the manner of a bugle, particularly requesting the characteristic intonation which results (something Benjamin Britten was later to ask of the horn player in his "Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings").

So, I just got to wondering what equipment I'd choose. When the composer writes "Natural Trumpet in Eb" I think he really wants something different from the notes played in the normal way on a Bb (or whatever). Maybe you could play the solo just using the harmonic series of Eb, and staying with the one valve combination throughout. I haven't got the part in front of me to know for sure. I can get a copy in a couple of days' time, so I'll check it out then.

Thanks again!

amtrpt

Hi HenriS,
Thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry to say that I have no idea what I would do. I suspect that I might be at least temted to pass it to the associate, but I probably wouldn't do that. When you have more information please let us know.

Best,
Andrew

HenriS

Hello Andrew and others,

I've now got a copy of the trumpet solo. It calls for "Natural Trumpet in Eb" and is marked (in part) "Quasi Cadenza (senza misura)". The notes used cover a very limited range:
Middle C, G (2nd line), Bb (3rd line), C (3rd space), D (4th line), E (4th space), and G (just above the stave). There is absolutely no problem with playability if you ignore the need to use the harmonic series, with the particular intonation of the 7th and 9th partials (as pointed out by Jason).

The real problem are the Bb notes. To get the sound Vaughan Williams was after, you would need a trumpet pitched an octave below conventional Bb or Eb instruments. I played the part on my Natural Trumpet (Meinl & Lauber, 1970, Edward Tarr model), and there is no problem with those 7th and 9th partials. Unfortunately, it's built in D, not Eb.

Were Natural Trumpets built in Eb around Vaughan Williams's time? I can't remember reading of any. I may well be wrong, but my feeling is that nats were more or less museum instruments until the second half of the 20th century.

So, I suppose today's orchestral players would just play the notes as written, on standard instruments (or can you get natural trumpets pitched in Eb?). I still wonder what instrument would have been used by players in Vaughan Williams's day.

Thanks, everyone for your comments.

jsnfmn

HenriS, my initial suggestion would do just as you suggest, give you an Eb Trumpet pitched an octave below our normal 'Eb Trumpet.' When you press the valves down you are essentially creating a new natural trumpet with an overtone series lower than instruments initial one. So, press down the second valve on a Bb Trumpet and you've got a Trumpet in A and so on down. Press down all three valves, kick out the third slide for another half step and you've got a Trumpet in Eb.

I'm assuming Vaughan Williams just wanted one of the old big Eb/F trumpets in use around the turn of the century by Mahler, Bruckner, Strauss, et al. They would have been pitched in the correct octave to play all of those notes without any valves, you'll see especially Bruckner writing for them in between the C and F# below middle C, a range that our modern smaller trumpets can't play the written notes, but since the Eb and F trumpets transposed up, we can play sounding notes.

I hope that wasn't too confusing. The book I mentioned above, Norman Del Mar's Anatomy of the Orchestra has a good section explaining this a bit further in the section on Range - Trumpets, in my copy p 286. I'd recommend every player, conductor and composer should have a copy of this book, it's incredibly informative about all of the little things that pop up while playing in an orchestra, and is frequently hilarious.

Jason

HenriS

Jason,

Thanks and thanks again. You've cleared up a muddle that I couldn't see my way out of! Extending the third slide, and using all three valves does the job very well. I didn't know about the old Eb/F trumpets used for Mahler, Bruckner and Strauss, either. So there's an area I really need to look into. I'll start by getting a copy of "Anatomy of the Orchestra".

It's great to get such helpful advice from everyone in this forum. Thanks!

HenriS

GordonH

I wonder if RVW actually meant an Eb cavalry trumpet, which in the UK is not an unsual or odd instrument for someone to have lying around.
Pretty cheap if you needed to buy one.