rowuk

Hi Wilmer,
with the development of very large bore instruments and big mouthpieces, brass players have the ability to play louder than ever before(we would prefer to call it with more dynamics I am sure).
What is your opinion on this? Are brass sections in orchestras louder today than 30-40-50 years ago?

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Derek Reaban

Rowuk,

I know that your question is related to current versus historic brass “sections”, but I thought that this quote from a concert 101 years ago related to a single player is worth mentioning:

• One of his most important pupils, Pyotr Lyamin (1884-1968), remembered later his first impression of Brandt. It was in 1905 in a concert of the Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra together with the combined military bands of the Moscow garrison. "At the final concluding theme [of Tchaikovsky's Marche slave] the combined bands of the Moscow garrison were added, and in the culmination the powerful, beautiful tones of the trumpeter Brandt sounded above all the others". Reports of Brandt's powerful tone can be found repeatedly.

The complete web page reference can be found here.

Could it be that there are more players today that are playing with clarity and resonance? I’m guessing that Brandt’s sound was so unique 100 years ago because he was one of few players that had really discovered that power and volume are achieved through clarity and purity and not brute force or “strength”.

The more people that have adopted this idea over the years, and been successful teaching it, have led to a larger number of players in individual sections. Now, instead of one “rare” player in a section capable of this sound a hundred years ago, there are full sections applying these ideas.

Now, I’m stepping out of the way to hear Wilmer’s experiences!

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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona

wiseone2

I think today's players are no louder than those in the past. I still can remember Cat Anderson's expression of disbelief when Murray Karpilowsky played a loud high C while warming up Murray was one of the loudest I have ever heard. He played a Meha Besson with a Harry Glantz model Conn mouthpiece. Roger Voisin could bury an orchestra.......and let's not even mention Mel Broiles.
You know, maybe today's guys need to try harder
Wilmer

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trpt2345

Don't forget about Jericho, too, that was some trumpet playing!

Michael McLaughlin

In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
Friedrich Nietzsche

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tromj

I asked Murray, who was about seventy eight at the time, if he would still feel comfortable playing the Brandenburg #2. His reply: "I would play it, but perhaps I would use a D trumpet as a concession to my age."
He played with a no prisoners taken mentality that I find lacking nowadays, even in otherwise great players.

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Derek Reaban

Wilmer,

I know that you’ve commented about Murry Karpilovsky in the past when I was asking you about players in the Pittsburgh Symphony. Playing shows with the Ice Capades and the NBC Symphony (Symphony of the Air) after Toscanini, and his powerful sound concept.

When I looked at the bio information that I had for him in the above link, I was sorry to see that I know almost nothing about him.

Maybe both you and tromj could share some stories here and then I could group them together to give a better picture of who he was.

Thanks!

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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona

W Scott

I'm not convinced that large bore instruments and big mouthpieces equal a bigger sound. I play just about every week up against my teacher who is a prinicpal with a symphony, and he plays a Bach 72 LB with a heavy gold brass bell, heavy caps, Najoom leadpipe. I'm on a Conn 22b with a Curry 1DE and I don't have any problem matching his volume. From what I can tell, bore size doesn't count for all that much.

Bill

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alanbach

I am unable to comment on brass sections in orchestras but certainly the UK brass bands are far more powerful nowadays than they were in the 50s or 60s, particularly in the Championship section. They also tend to be far quieter when pp is called for.

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ilikethetrumpet

Theodore Thomas, who I think was involved in the creation of the CSO (no wonder there!) used to put on "monster concerts" after the civil war with literally hundreds of each instrument (for instance, a hundred trumpets) playing Haydn and Mozart with thousand-voice choruses. I remember a quote from him saying something understated like, "sometimes there would be intonation challenges." But can you imagine how loud that would be?

Manny Laureano

Vacchiano used to say that Gustav Heim from the early part of last century was the loudest trumpeter he ever heard. They used to have to send him very far away when he's play Leonora III.