the8thchef

so, a friend and i were talking, wondering who the real last great jazz trumpet innovator was....

we came down to booker little, woody shaw, and don cherry. after further and much deeper contemplation and aural reflection, we came down to woody shaw and don cherry. after further and much deeper aural reflection and contemplation, we heard that even more so than woody shaw, don cherry is the real last great jazz trumpet innovator.

although woody shaw took the bebop language, and the "soul/rock" language and integrated them in his own personal style, and although much of what he was doing was hiphop before hiphop,

don cherry formed a language that, although the lineage of blues bop and before are traceable in his work, don cherry extended the vocabulary to a more spoken way of playing. similar to the way miles would sing, it was like don cherry spat poetry through the horn in spoken language rhythm and structures. no one before, nor anyone convincingly since, has had such a linguistic approach to their musical language.

of course, i'm only 25 and have only listened to jazz for the last 19 years, playing jazz for 14, spanning prebop to freebop to hiphop, so i don't really know that much...

what, dear trumpetmasters, do you think on the topic? who, in your masterly trumpet opins, is the last true trumpet innovator. you can't just say *blah*blah* without explaining why. and you can't say yourselves, because i'm sure you're not as much of the next great innovator as i...

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Manny Laureano

8th,

When you say trumpet innovator, are you speaking about how someone influenced the course of the idiomatic use of the trumpet in jazz or how a trumpeter affected the course of jazz overall for everybody, regardless of instrument? I think it's a pretty significant clarification.

This should be an interesting topic to follow.

ML

Bear

What about Clark Terry?

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thefish1

Has everyone forgotten Mr. Louis Armstrong and everything that he gave to music and the world? I feel that that he was one of the true greats, not only in the world of trumpet players, but to the world of music . He helped expose the world to jazz music and bring it to the entire world and also put it on the map for the masses to enjoy. He helped with his personality that was appealling to everyone. Every time that you saw him in person on stage or on television, you knew that you were going to have a great time and that there will be a great music to be enjoyed.

With his gravelly voice, he also sang very well. He was a master musician. A composer and a performer. In my humble opinion, you can't forget him. All that and he was a great trumpet player and innovator. He was credited with syncopation, thus changing the course of music and trumpet playing forever. Yes, please don't forget Mr. Armstrong.

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Tim McGinley

It is hard to say who the LAST great trumpet innovator was. Perhaps we should be looking at the current players reaching that status. There is NO DOUBT that all of the afore mentioned players were/are innovators. Every self-respecting player should know the contributions of the likes of Louis Armstrong, Clark Terry, Freddie Hubbard, etc.
These individuals have already carved their place in trumpet history. I think the last (or perhaps latest) innovators are still making their statements.
Of course this is just my opinion:

Wynton Marsalis has certainly given us lots to talk about.
Nicholas Payton has shown light on a fresh take to New Orleans playing.
Roy Hargrove for a modern sound (perhaps reminiscent of Lee Morgan).
Maybe a lesser known, Jeremy Davenport for a more Chet Baker-like approach.
Where are all of these folks are emulating a past hero (who doesn't) they are all adding a little something that perhaps is promoting a little innovation.

Listening to ANY of these players always makes me want to practice. Isn't that what innovation is about?
I like to hear more thought!

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loweredsixth

Although I'm sure it is too early to say, I think Wynton Marsalis will go down as the next great jazz trumpet innovator after Don Cherry.

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loweredsixth

Mr. Laureano, that is a good question. Perhaps, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, and Dizzy Gillespie were the only ones to do both!

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beartrumpet74

As far as the last great trumpet innovator is concerned I have a few thoughts.
(Hope I spell everything right, as that is not my Forte)

First off ...Woody Shaw = soul rock influence? Not even close... Woody took the lines of saxophonists and made them possible on the trumpet. i.e. pentatonics, and the use of fourths, and finally the shape of his improvised lines, which doesn't even come close to equaling a soul rock influence. Woody's music was rooted in swing and the jazz aesthetic.

To answer Manny's question... the standard by which a trumpeter would be judged in my opinion, as to whether or not he/she has become an innovator is largely dependant upon things within the scope of harmony and composition/ rhythmic language.

i.e. Charlie Parker and bebop, Miles and modal jazz, Monk and his harmonic and rhythmic approach as well as his voicing's which used a lot of clusters and the like, as well as the way he comped or didn’t....
Ellington and composition, Coltrane and harmony....These things are but a small sampling of the innovations in jazz.

With this in mind, I would point to the work of none of the trumpeters mentioned so far with regard to CURRENT innovators. I would; however, point to the following people.

Tim Hagans.... his harmonic approach can be wildly inventive. His use of chromaticism, among the many things he does is an example. Listen to the Audible Architecture CD, you'll hear it.

Dave Douglas.... for about a million reasons. Composition, style, and a TOTAL lack of fear to push the boundaries of what is and isn't considered jazz. Ever listened to his trio recordings? ...That’s pushing boundaries for sure.

Kenny Wheeler... again for his style (straight 8th notes...the ECM vibe) In addition, his compositions are amazing... take the Suite time Suite for big band...TOTALLY amazing work, it is on the "music for large and small ensemble" CD

Terimasu Hino ... a lot like listening to Woody on steroids. Hino is again pushing harmony and has a distinct articulation style that I recognize right off the bat when I hear him.

Clay Jenkins... has there ever been anyone outside of Don Cherry that played this out and did it this well. Clay is again...FEARLESS, when it comes to harmonic creativity.

Wallace Roney. DON'T EVEN THINK OF SAYING HE SOUNDS JUST LIKE MILES!
I dare you to point to even ONE Miles record that is AS chromatic as just about anything Wallace has ever recorded. He again is fearless when it comes to pushing boundaries. He has one of the most distinct voices on trumpet right now when you get past his sound being like that of Davis...you have to listen to what's said, not just how he says it.

Terence Blanchard. Again, his compositions are amazing. He has a very personal style that no one else has. His use of half valve on the trumpet is simply amazing. His sound is in my humble opinion, the best trumpet sound around right now. Terence can get out too. He is his own man when it comes to style of improvising.


OK, enough of the rant... on to other mentionables

Ryan Kisor when not playing with the LCJO. His quartet and quintet records are awesome, not quite "innovative" but nonetheless, headed in that direction.

Ingrid Jensen. Still young, but headed in a great direction. To me she seems to combine the best of Miles and Woody Shaw, and put her own perspective on it. She is one of my favorites right now.

Oh and finally, I forgot to mention the other 400 trumpeters in NY and LA that no one has heard yet...

The last great trumpet innovator? ... Who knows, there are a lot of people working in that direction right now.... the process is ongoing, and by no means "in the past"

Peace
Matt

Veldkamp

I think Randy Brecker also influenced a lot of players. Not only his playing but his writing influenced a lot of players. Everybody knows songs like "Some Skunk Funk" or "Sponge". If not, buy his records...

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Brekelefuw

Wynton isn't an innovator, he is a technician.

I would agree with Woody Shaw.
Clark Terry has been around since the 40's. I wouldn't call him the last innovator because he has been doing his thing for SO long.

Kenny Wheeler did his own thing and now there are so many people who have his influence.

Dave Douglas could be on this list as well as other have pointed out.

Another person I think comes up there is Tom Harrell. His style and writing are always recogniseable as his own and not an immitation of other players.