asd

Not that long ago, if playing jazz was your passion, as a trumpet player, there were gigs from the highest masters that were avaible and were won by audition, reccomendation, combination of both. Art Blakey and so forth.

Same with big bands. Gerry Mulligan and so forth (playing the solo chair.)

Now that the majority of our great leaders are dead, or highly inactive, who is it that you aspire to play with these days?

And the irony of all of this is that there has never been a time, in recent history, that there have been so many trumpet players, or quality horns (read: expensive.)

I'm still a bach trumpet; bach mp kind of guy (although my 5C from 1973 when I was in HS has truely worn out and I've replaced it with a Curry which is really a Bach in many ways--at least the 5C.

Guess I'm old school, but I wonder where all of these players with GR mouth pieces and Monette equipmment and the explosion of trumpet equipment/manufacuters play and perform. There have always been choices, but not like today.

Do we really need $1000 of dollars of equpment to play in a community organization or even in college?

For example, I really like red wine. And I know a bit about it. And I live in France. Now you can get a bottle here for 2 bucks or thousands. I have the wine "chops" to understand what makes a $75 bottle of wine worth it. But any higher and I just don't get it or am I able to understand the dynamics that make that wine "great." But there are people who can "taste" wine right up to those $800 bottles of Burgundy or Bordeux.

If you carry that anaolgy to trumpets and mouthpieces can people really hear/feel/conceptulize the diference between a really good Bach (and i mean good) and these new instruments that seem to be cropping up every day??

Almost every great orchestral player in the very close past used Bach equipment exclusively. Many still do. And bach has always been inconsistant, you had to search hard for a good horn. In the old days, you might play 10 horns at Giardenellis until you got the one that was right for you.

I'm really asking two questions in this post.

wilcox96

A quick note on who to aspire to play with... if you are in "regular America"..(or choose your country/area), you have to end up finding your own way with musicians and opportunities. Create your own opportunities. There are still touring shows/artists - along with various orchestras (other than symphonies, I'm talking about), recording opportunities, local productions of shows, etc, etc. Still, that's all about getting out there and making the connections. You need to be able to play...no question... but, no one will know who you are from your practice room. Get out there.

As for the horns, etc of today... it is kind of a ying yang. Sure, you could play/feel/sound terrific on a horn that looks like it came off the wall of a restaurant (my favorite analogy..ha). However, the innovations and attention to detail (not to mention the available technology) that is available to today's designer is really remarkable. The other factor involved is the personal attention these designers are able (and willing) to provide really plays a huge part in their growing popularity. As you said... going into a store - rummaging through a dozen or so horns on your own or with a store staff member.. eh. If you have a good employee...that's fine. Still, your choices are limited to what's on hand. With custom designers, you are a bit more in control - with more choices. Some of it, I feel, can be a bit mind numbing.

The costs of some of the newer designers is not as extravagant as you might think. Sure...some are seemingly outlandish...but even those charge those fees for their expertise, time, craftsmanship - as they see fit and the market they want to be in will bear. These horns can and do sound terrific on the right players. It's like the difference between a Jeep Grand Cherokee (a fine SUV) and a Lexus version of the basically the same thing...for exponentially more money. Both get the job done...and are nice vehicles. Each reaches the market they want to reach. Those who enjoy the Jeep, can't figure out the reason someone who buys the Lexus version vs the cost.

TrentAustin

There are still gigs? ;)

Cheers,

T

wilcox96

Amen, Trent. haha. That is the truth. Feast or famon...and mainly famon vs days gone by.
Considering what I perceive "you" do, Trent...you are the poster boy for making your own way. I mean that very respectfully...

asd

You know, I've heard it all before--your argument is familiar--but in order to play with Max, or Horace, et al--you had to prove yourself--in today's world anyone with a multi track has "opertunities."

I'm not sure i go for the technological advances in horns idea. Remeber back in 91 Herseth played a Monette and then went back to the bach. As I understood it, he didn't feel the horn represented him well.

How about all of the old masters---many of them had terrible horns, and i don't think there is anyone out there today who plays any better then Woody Shaw or Clifford Brown and they had terrible horn or horns in terrible condition or both.

Lexus? They aren't even available in Japan--because they are for the export market made by Toyota.

Its all a big game.

I've played many of the new horns, so I'm not ignorant.

But to get back to the Lexas idea, it's really about status IMO

(although I am looking hard at some of the options from Eclipse!!)

Thanks for responding!!

wilcox96

ASD...

I agree with you.. That's why I said, "you had to be able to play"... which mirrors your statement of having to "prove" yourself. Right on. In many ways...it is the same as days gone by in that respect. Just not as many (perceived or otherwise) opportunities to do so - thus the statement about making your own way.

As for the Lexus analogy... we are on the same page there as well. Status for some... true benefit for others. That's also why I always say - some folks can play great with a horn that looks like it came off the wall of a restaurant... (my present horn certainly would qualify... dare I say it? ...yes..a Bach Strad ....

At least there are some interesting choices for those who are interested.

Siegtrmpt

Here in DC the gigs are on Capitol Hill and at Embassies, Hotels, Private Clubs, Country Clubs, Private Homes, Shopping Malls, Universities, Schools, Places of Worship, Stadiums, Althletic Fields, Nursing Homes, Restaurants, Dance Halls........................gigs are everywhere, you just have to look for them.

rowuk

I think any time we start to compare art (whether painting, wine, trumpet building, trumpet playing....) we will always see a broad selection of quality, characteristics, price, level of appreciation. The reason that we have electric drills, induction stoves, sunglasses that automatically tint, teflon coated pans and the high quality instruments that we enjoy today is because there have always been creative people (that found financing) out there stretching the envelope.
Of course Homo Sapiens can live in a hole, teepee, log cabin or the presidents suite at the Waldorf Astoria. In their respective times, those dwellings were adequate to more than adequate.
I see the same issue with trumpets. Brilliant players have played just about everything ever written brilliantly on their Bach Bb or C trumpets. Does that mean that another player (brilliant or not) shouldn't look for another color - stretching that envelope of what we have become accustomed to? I find standards regardless of where they are found to limit certain dimensions of performance.
Playing a Mozart Requiem on a natural trumpet gives me a much more dramatic picture of heaven or hell - sonically speaking - the Bach C sound is too clear. A true rotary valved trumpet paints a Mahler or Bruckner symphony much differently than a "standard Bach". Modern american classics should probably use an airbrush designed and built by Bach, Schilke or some other american standard. The Ferguson Band had a "new" color with Monette - why not?
Of course, a case could also be made for "authentic historical playing". That is not my point, however.
I used to sell photo equipment to the NATO military in Europe. I had a great opportunity to compare Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta, Hasselblad and Leica cameras. In comparing the picture quality, one thing stood out:
The japanese cameras had a "neutral" color balance when taking pictures outdoors on a bright sunny day(something common in Japan). The german lenses on the Hasselblad and Leica had their "neutral" color balance on overcast days (common in Germany). Of course it was possible to compensate for everything and get great results with all of them. Still, many artists identify with those colors provided by the basic equipment. The same is true with trumpets. Yes, every player should have a Bach B or C trumpet for at least a small part (if not more) of their career. If they start to look for other "colors" they are doing the art a favor. Just because you can play almost everything on it and Bud Herseth did, doesn't mean that the next generation should put on blinders and do the same thing. Just maybe there is a little room for alternate greatness like Manny or Wynton on Monette, or somebody else with a Xeno, Eclipse or whatever. For me it is a great tragedy that Chicago doesn't play Schilke, New York NYTC, LA Benge or Kanstul, etc, etc. Every orchestra with their "own" sound. Trumpet players getting trained to be able to assimilate the local styles and take the local art to new extremes instead of becoming universally replacable. Jazz players have always been good at this and a broad range of instruments is represented! Vienna is one of the last orchestras with their own historic fingerprint. I have a lot of respect for that.
To answer your question: you do not NEED $1000 of equipment for a community or college gig. If you are offering something unique, you may be doing everybody a favor............

Siegtrmpt

Shoot......we could also drive to work in a 4 door 1965 Falcon decorated with rust and bondo and we'd still get to work but a Vette or a Mercedes gets us there in style. We could also eat cereal out of a plain box marked "cereal" but "Lucky Charms is magically delicious". Let's face it.....most of us here would do just fine if the only instrument we owned was the beat up Olds Ambassador we played in 5th grade and stuck with the mouthpiece that came with it but a custom Monette or Blackburn or Mt. Vernon Bach trumpet captures our imagination. It's about art and style. Why not have fun with it?

tpter1

I don't necessarily think that's so bad a thing, though. Opportunities exist to either stand on the music and the quality of your playing and creativity or to fail on their lack, without the demands of a publisher or producer breathing down your neck and being hypercritical because you want to be a bit esoteric. Artistic freedom is a good thing.

I think the small manufacturers are doing great and wonderful things to advance this piece of brass. Science and technology combining to produce art; this is progress. Much like the addition of valves (although maybe not as significant; that could be another discussion).