wiseone2

Bb Trumpet or C Trumpet, in the hands of a player who is comfortable with them, can be interchangeable. There is a TPIN discussion going on now about Bb and C trumpets in Jazz Bands that, to me, parallels the debate on the trumpets played in symphony orchestras. On those few occasions I have used C trumpet in big band, I have not had a chance to get to go and pick up my Bb. Once I happened to be on my way home from a gig and when looking in on a band, I was enlisted to play. I only had a C trumpet.
On the show "A Doll's Life," Billy Byers wrote for Bb AND C trumpet for me.
One of the last times I worked with William Vacchiano, he played a D trumpet for the entire concert. "Poem of Ecstasy" was on that concert, he nailed it.
Wilmer

pipedope

I suspect that some of the disagreement is due to different choices of instrument between Bb and C trumpets for many players.

I think that the horn is secondary to the performance and while it is good to use the best horn available for a job (or tune) sometimes it is far better to use the horn at hand rather than leave the job not done.

camelbrass

Confidence seems to be the key. I've played with players that learnt their craft in the US and those that have learnt their craft in the UK. In a 'what horn do you grab?' race most of the US players will grab a C and most of the UK players will grab a Bb for exactly the same piece. The common ground is that they have been players skilled enough to be able to colour the sound of their chosen instrument so that it suits the music they were required to play and also fits the ensemble.


Regards,


Trevor

bandman

Wilmer, I love to read your topics because they make me think!

I have a C trumpet which is the best instrument of any kind that I have ever played. (It is a Bach Strad that was modified by Jason Harrelson.) I don't care who made it, nor do I care who modified it, it is just so incredibly easy to play, and I have a strange ability to change to tonal color of that instrument to match the sound of anything I'm playing.

I used it on 5 gigs in the past 7 days, and I'll use it twice again tomorrow morning, but I also used it this year on a gig where we played several big band charts and show tunes. I used that horn because I like the way it cuts, and because I liked the way the fingering patterns of the tunes fell as compared with my Bb-trumpet.

I have a nice stable of horns, and I use them all on many gigs, but there is just a certain confidence that I have when I pick up my C-trumpet; it just works for me! I think I'd play a trumpet in the "key of Z" most of the time if it played as well as my C-trumpet.

rowuk

If we would concentrate on what comes out the front - which is really what music is about - and not so much about how to get there - which is what trumpet players with too much time on their hands (obviously from not practicing) are all about, this would not even be a discussion.

The gift of music is what it is about, not the curse of geekiness. All ye trumpet players: go out an make somebody smile!

I do not have a lead trumpet mouthpiece that works in my C..............

BADBOY-DON

Oh-Oooooo!
Mps.....!!! for C horns again?

For example on my B flat Callet horn....plays beautifully with my Warburton 4Vs with a "D" backbore...but when I pop that mp into my favorite Callet Symphonique C horn, some notes especially D on the staff sound flat. so i switch to either my Callet 7 varicup or my smaller Callet V.F.- 12s and the intonation is vastly improved?
Dave Monette has consistantly enticed me to try one of his C mouthpieces...and swears that most B instrument mp. will not play properly in tune or pitch we we chose to use them in our C horns?

Hey U mouthpiece addicted scientifical' souls....IS THIS FACT OR FICTION...THAT C HORNS DO NOT PLAY AS WELL IF A MP THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR B HORNS IS USED IN THEIR C HORNS?

However bottom line:
My beautiful old Callet C Symphonique C horn still plays IN TUNE far and away better than any other brand of C horn that I have ever played and I can ASSURE YOU I HAVE PLAYED ON BUNCHES OF VARIOUS BRAND C HORNS over the many years that I have been rootin-n-tootin.
U wouldn't believe how many beautiful sounding and quality playing C horns that simply had so many intonation and pitch issues...that was a constant effort and often using false fingering on these lack luster C horns was forever a way of life....that is until Jerome sent me my beautiful old Symphonique C (used but still like new) horn waaaay back in the early 90's.
I was SHOCKED...to finally find a C horn that played with such projection, and with a sound so full, dense, and a voice that no longer sounded shrill or brassy in the upper register.
(However gang...remember that a C horn register is pitched higher and still wish that I could reach waaaaaaaaaay down for those beautiful full bodied notes below the staff that are soooooooooo beautiful with a good B flat horn.
I have alway wished that our B flat pitched horns could access even lower ranges that are unavailable...except for petal-toonie tones n'allthatjazz?

rowuk

Badboy,
generally every horn needs a mouthpiece that "matches" its characteristics. Cup and Rim could be constant but the throat and backbore need to be optimised for every leadpipe. I use Monette mouthpieces and matching the pitch does make things easier for me - especially on the C and Picc!
Getting back to the Trumpet Shall Sound, if we are playing with a very small chamber orchestra, our large bore horn with Bach1x mouthpiece with a size 15 backbore may not fit sonically with the rest of the ensemble. The same goes for getting a big band sound out of a C trumpet (especially if you are not playing lead and have to blend with the rest of the section).

I have a Getzen 4-valved flugelhorn and love the ability to use the lower octave. Sergei Nakariakov also makes some enticing arguments for this too!

wiseone2

It's about musicianship. It has always been about musicianship. The ability to phrase is not automatically built into an instrument. I would not sound the same playing the same instrument in different settings. My LB Bach fits equally well in the St.-Saens Septet as it does playing lead on the West Side Story......with the same mouthpiece.
Too much is made about equipment, it is the player that is important.
Wilmer

Vulgano Brother

"Lead" mouthpieces don't seem to work real well on C trumpets, but a Purviance 8A works great on my C. It has come in handy playing the Gospel Masses by Ralf Grössler, with quick changes from sizzle to sweet. My C is pretty freaky, though, with a Bb bell and adjustable gap, so this may not work on all C's at all. Probably not.

Fun stuff to play: Ralf Grössler - Symphonic Gospel

BADBOY-DON

Good points but that make me go------Hummmm??? Clearly can't remember which, where, who, and what trumpet maker or makers have said that it is rumored that BACH STRAD C HORNS...
were simply BACH STRAD B FLAT INSTRUMENTS...mearly "CUT DOWN AND RE-TWEAKED B FLAT MODELS?? :)
Perhaps????? Could that be the reason your Bach C play so beautifully in tune and pitch?
BAD-BAD-BAD JOKE...WILMER! No disrespect intended but....
Just razzin n' jazzin you Wilmer. I gotta keep up my badboy image you know?

Where do you suppose that rumor started??? Could it have been told to Ziggy by Dave's kitty cat Sheldon? :) or maybe even from one of the poorest C horns that I ever had the pain and agony to live and learn false fingers with in order to stay in pitch..."
Trust me when I say...That old C horn that I used to perform with....was far and away NO BLESSING to me until I got lucky with a beautiful Symphonique C horn from Jerome.

WOW! NOW THAT WAS TRULY A BLESSING!


Wilmer and trumpet gang... Have a great new year...and may your Blessings be realized and full.

Wilmer...could ya' give a little "grace-n-pardons" for razzin you about your wonderful Bach. In the past...I have found that NOTHING RAZES THE HACKLES from every traditionist Bach-a-holic in the world. Because of that my deepest pardons to every Bach lovin' player everywhere...
Perhaps it is just pure mean or that I AM JUST PLAIN ENVUS! :)