.25 practice help - Page 2

ecarroll · 10-28-2009, 10:39 PM

EC is blessed by having fabulous and literate students.

Carry on,
EC

Khora · 10-28-2009, 10:44 PM

Hi Matthew. I appreciate the advice - reiterated or not. Since you speak directly to the issues in the Scelsi, your post is quite helpful! I think my biggest hurdle to overcome is a sense of insecurity about what I'm hearing rather than an actual inability to do it; your suggestions are really dead on.

Can't wait to hear your recording -

Smithi20 · 11-02-2009, 09:28 PM

Hiya, it's much easier to lip down a quarter than lip up, unless it's a gliss up to a quarter! Do you have a cello player you can hang out with? Ed please hit me if I'm giving bad advice!

Smithi20 · 11-02-2009, 09:40 PM

can you find a cello player to have a bottle of wine with? I'm sure she'd love it!

Smithi20 · 11-06-2009, 12:00 AM

Sorry, I deserve a slap for that previous post!

Khora · 11-06-2009, 11:13 AM

Probably. But no worries on this end. The underlying idea is a good one.

ecarroll · 11-06-2009, 11:55 AM

Ian,

All of the .25 tones in 4tro Pezzi except one if my memory serves me can be achieved via slides/alt fingerings. Only lip up/down when there's no other choice.

Best,
EC

rowuk · 11-14-2009, 09:16 AM

I haven't really spent tons of time with quarter steps, but isn't a quarter step subject to the same tuning offsets depending on the interval and key, or do we have to aim for mathematically perfect intervals?

I would think a tuning slide with a rotary quarter tone valve (like the second valve on a picc) could make life much easier here. or is this just a hardware solution for a software problem?

ecarroll · 11-14-2009, 12:48 PM

Robin,

You're right and right.

Hardware solutions abound beyond the simple slide/alternative fingering solution offered above for Quattro Pezzi (although that works perfectly well). Any 4 valve trumpet can be set-up with a .25 tone on #4. My flugelhorn works this way and Marcinkiewicz even markets the same in a Bb trumpet (bet that's a BIG seller).

Marco Blaauw Double Bell Trumpet performs on a double bell trumpet with a dedicated .25 valve on the tuning slide.

That said, any tuning system, even our common "well tempered" one, comes with compromises and nothing that we turn, depress, or plunge will provide a true .25 tone in every key/register. That's why we are there -- ears on and imagination provided.

Best,
EC

rowuk · 11-14-2009, 03:35 PM

What I do remember is that at Eastman we did spend some time and didn't use tuners. We were looking for specific colors. I had done some extra credit stuff on mean tuning for old church music and this all seemed to fit together.

Back then I seem to remember Don Ellis pioneering some serious stuff in this direction too. He did a master class in Rochester that I attended. After it was over I was changed for the rest of my life. I realized that there was a world beyond my reach that I could enjoy----------- as part of the audience!

10-28-2009, 10:39 PM	#11
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,970	Re: .25 practice help EC is blessed by having fabulous and literate students. Carry on, EC

10-28-2009, 10:44 PM	#12
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	Re: .25 practice help Hi Matthew. I appreciate the advice - reiterated or not. Since you speak directly to the issues in the Scelsi, your post is quite helpful! I think my biggest hurdle to overcome is a sense of insecurity about what I'm hearing rather than an actual inability to do it; your suggestions are really dead on. Can't wait to hear your recording - __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

11-02-2009, 09:28 PM	#13
Smithi20 Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 129	Re: .25 practice help Hiya, it's much easier to lip down a quarter than lip up, unless it's a gliss up to a quarter! Do you have a cello player you can hang out with? Ed please hit me if I'm giving bad advice! __________________ Ian Eng Bessons: Proteano Bb/A and C/Bb //Warburton 3M10 Weltklang //Warburton 3FLX

11-02-2009, 09:40 PM	#14
Smithi20 Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 129	Re: .25 practice help can you find a cello player to have a bottle of wine with? I'm sure she'd love it! __________________ Ian Eng Bessons: Proteano Bb/A and C/Bb //Warburton 3M10 Weltklang //Warburton 3FLX

11-06-2009, 12:00 AM	#15
Smithi20 Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 129	Re: .25 practice help Sorry, I deserve a slap for that previous post! __________________ Ian Eng Bessons: Proteano Bb/A and C/Bb //Warburton 3M10 Weltklang //Warburton 3FLX

11-06-2009, 11:13 AM	#16
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	Re: .25 practice help Probably. But no worries on this end. The underlying idea is a good one. __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

11-06-2009, 11:55 AM	#17
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,970	Re: .25 practice help Ian, All of the .25 tones in 4tro Pezzi except one if my memory serves me can be achieved via slides/alt fingerings. Only lip up/down when there's no other choice. Best, EC

11-14-2009, 09:16 AM	#18
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7,364	Re: .25 practice help I haven't really spent tons of time with quarter steps, but isn't a quarter step subject to the same tuning offsets depending on the interval and key, or do we have to aim for mathematically perfect intervals? I would think a tuning slide with a rotary quarter tone valve (like the second valve on a picc) could make life much easier here. or is this just a hardware solution for a software problem? __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-14-2009, 12:48 PM	#19
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,970	Re: .25 practice help Robin, You're right and right. Hardware solutions abound beyond the simple slide/alternative fingering solution offered above for Quattro Pezzi (although that works perfectly well). Any 4 valve trumpet can be set-up with a .25 tone on #4. My flugelhorn works this way and Marcinkiewicz even markets the same in a Bb trumpet (bet that's a BIG seller). Marco Blaauw Double Bell Trumpet performs on a double bell trumpet with a dedicated .25 valve on the tuning slide. That said, any tuning system, even our common "well tempered" one, comes with compromises and nothing that we turn, depress, or plunge will provide a true .25 tone in every key/register. That's why we are there -- ears on and imagination provided. Best, EC

11-14-2009, 03:35 PM	#20
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7,364	Re: .25 practice help What I do remember is that at Eastman we did spend some time and didn't use tuners. We were looking for specific colors. I had done some extra credit stuff on mean tuning for old church music and this all seemed to fit together. Back then I seem to remember Don Ellis pioneering some serious stuff in this direction too. He did a master class in Rochester that I attended. After it was over I was changed for the rest of my life. I realized that there was a world beyond my reach that I could enjoy----------- as part of the audience! __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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