.25 practice help

Khora · 10-13-2009, 09:37 PM

EC-

I'm wondering about the best way to to learn to hear .25 tones effectively. I've had some luck practicing them with the tuner, but I'm not convinced that I am actually hearing them correctly - without the visual aid I'm not hitting them exactly. I know I need to keep at it (preferably in a slightly less noise-polluted environment than my apt.), but I could use some help.

Are there some resources out there you can recommend?

SC

ecarroll · 10-14-2009, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khora

Are there some resources out there you can recommend?

Sandy,

None that I'm aware of. How are you at Just Intonation? One of the problems here is our previous training in a well tempered world.

Best,
EC

Khora · 10-14-2009, 09:50 AM

EC-

Thanks - it comes and goes.
(But then so does our well-tempered world - seems a bit more ILL-tempered to me these days!)
I'll keep plugging away at it.

Smithi20 · 10-24-2009, 02:10 AM

Hi,

I´m sure there must be a company in New York that sets up chamber organs at venues, if they´re anything like Manders in London they have guys who´ll tune an organ on the spot to any temper you wish.... very cheerfully! This blew my mind... These guys are usually very approachable and would probably be glad to point you in the direction of how they got their ears together.

Are you playing a quarter tone trumpet? Or lipping it?

Ed, is there really no book on microtonality for trumpet?

Khora · 10-27-2009, 11:03 AM

Hi Ian-

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been working with a very well-trained vocalist on it, and have spoken with a couple of piano and organ tuners about it, all of which is helping. It really is an aural perception difficulty. And yes, I'm lipping it.

duncancampbell · 10-27-2009, 09:32 PM

My little brother knows a Dmitri who has poorly-tempered perfect pitch - he gets angry when anybody confuses A flat and G sharp.

ckallmyer · 10-28-2009, 05:51 PM

Hey Sandy,

I saw your note about quarter tones---and I wanted to tell you that I've found it useful to use alternate fingerings, slides and some healthy experimentation. There is no easy way to do it---its kinda awkward and weird.

For example: (B)-2 (Bflat)-1 (B quarter flat)- 13 with your third slide out (partially). Trying to find that middle place where the B quarter flat just sounds between the B and Bb has helped me to start finding quarter tones and hearing the funny notes on my horn.

You could also do some tuning to drones
-with your minor seventh above 31 cents flat or your tritone---about a quartermtone flat.

Sandy! what are you working on!? I'm psyched to hear that you are working on some good music up in NY.

your friend,
-chris

Khora · 10-28-2009, 06:21 PM

Hi Chris - the immediate issue is in the Scelsi. Getting a handle on it there - not too much to really worry with in that piece, but would really like to have the whole process better under control. Might come in handy at some point, beyond playing with my students.....

mahaberio · 10-28-2009, 06:45 PM

Hi Sandy,

There are some issues with Scelsi that you don't see in other quarter-tone works. Most work well with alternate fingerings and some third-valve slide manipulation. I'd recommend playing half-steps and working the in-between. For example, take the A-flat a .25 down on the first page and play G-Ab1/4down-Ab and back down again. Your ear can pretty easily identify where half-way in between the G and the Ab lies this way. Others (such as the B-flat a .25 tone up on page 2) can't be done this way. For this I simply lip down a B, but the tone suffers slightly. I blame the composer.

mahaberio · 10-28-2009, 06:56 PM

AH! Sorry to reiterate what Chris already said. Should have read the full thread before replying.

Anyway, I recently recorded Scelsi; drop me and email and when I get the final edit back I'd love to send it your way.

-Matthew

10-13-2009, 09:37 PM	#1
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	.25 practice help EC- I'm wondering about the best way to to learn to hear .25 tones effectively. I've had some luck practicing them with the tuner, but I'm not convinced that I am actually hearing them correctly - without the visual aid I'm not hitting them exactly. I know I need to keep at it (preferably in a slightly less noise-polluted environment than my apt.), but I could use some help. Are there some resources out there you can recommend? SC __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

10-14-2009, 09:50 AM	#3
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	Re: .25 practice help EC- Thanks - it comes and goes. (But then so does our well-tempered world - seems a bit more ILL-tempered to me these days!) I'll keep plugging away at it. __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

10-24-2009, 02:10 AM	#4
Smithi20 Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 129	Re: .25 practice help Hi, I´m sure there must be a company in New York that sets up chamber organs at venues, if they´re anything like Manders in London they have guys who´ll tune an organ on the spot to any temper you wish.... very cheerfully! This blew my mind... These guys are usually very approachable and would probably be glad to point you in the direction of how they got their ears together. Are you playing a quarter tone trumpet? Or lipping it? Ed, is there really no book on microtonality for trumpet? __________________ Ian Eng Bessons: Proteano Bb/A and C/Bb //Warburton 3M10 Weltklang //Warburton 3FLX

10-27-2009, 11:03 AM	#5
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	Re: .25 practice help Hi Ian- Thanks for the suggestions. I've been working with a very well-trained vocalist on it, and have spoken with a couple of piano and organ tuners about it, all of which is helping. It really is an aural perception difficulty. And yes, I'm lipping it. __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

10-27-2009, 09:32 PM	#6
duncancampbell New Friend Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 21	Re: .25 practice help My little brother knows a Dmitri who has poorly-tempered perfect pitch - he gets angry when anybody confuses A flat and G sharp.

10-28-2009, 05:51 PM	#7
ckallmyer New Friend Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 33	Re: .25 practice help Hey Sandy, I saw your note about quarter tones---and I wanted to tell you that I've found it useful to use alternate fingerings, slides and some healthy experimentation. There is no easy way to do it---its kinda awkward and weird. For example: (B)-2 (Bflat)-1 (B quarter flat)- 13 with your third slide out (partially). Trying to find that middle place where the B quarter flat just sounds between the B and Bb has helped me to start finding quarter tones and hearing the funny notes on my horn. You could also do some tuning to drones -with your minor seventh above 31 cents flat or your tritone---about a quartermtone flat. Sandy! what are you working on!? I'm psyched to hear that you are working on some good music up in NY. your friend, -chris __________________ www.chriskallmyer.com http://myspace.com/chriskallmyermusic

10-28-2009, 06:21 PM	#8
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	Re: .25 practice help Hi Chris - the immediate issue is in the Scelsi. Getting a handle on it there - not too much to really worry with in that piece, but would really like to have the whole process better under control. Might come in handy at some point, beyond playing with my students..... __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

10-28-2009, 06:45 PM	#9
mahaberio Piano User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 300	Re: .25 practice help Hi Sandy, There are some issues with Scelsi that you don't see in other quarter-tone works. Most work well with alternate fingerings and some third-valve slide manipulation. I'd recommend playing half-steps and working the in-between. For example, take the A-flat a .25 down on the first page and play G-Ab1/4down-Ab and back down again. Your ear can pretty easily identify where half-way in between the G and the Ab lies this way. Others (such as the B-flat a .25 tone up on page 2) can't be done this way. For this I simply lip down a B, but the tone suffers slightly. I blame the composer.

10-28-2009, 06:56 PM	#10
mahaberio Piano User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 300	Re: .25 practice help AH! Sorry to reiterate what Chris already said. Should have read the full thread before replying. Anyway, I recently recorded Scelsi; drop me and email and when I get the final edit back I'd love to send it your way. -Matthew

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