Brandenburg 2 Dynamics

trumpetnick · 06-10-2007, 11:46 AM

Dear Ed,

Till recently I was not daring to adventure myself into the Brandenburg, as I heard of young trumpeters hurting their lips with such stuff...So finally I got the courage and as recently I got a new piccolo from Spada, so I started working on it.

However, one question arrised:

As there is many repeated patterns who may be interpreted in "echo" fashion (f-p) I am seriously thinking of doing it most of the cases, but never heard anyone doing it on any of the recordings I have heard so far...

What is your opinion on?

ecarroll · 06-10-2007, 12:43 PM

Nick,

Most of the passages that you are refering to are in tutti places, correct? If so the best solution is to follow the lines in the strings. You're accompaning them and shouldn't draw attention to your part.

I assume you've watched Cassone's video that's floating around on youtube? It's a fabulous performance (and then some).

Best,
EC

trumpetnick · 06-10-2007, 12:50 PM

I have seen Cassone with Il Barochisti which is really fabulous....but what if all the orchestra does that? I know that it is not really written, but then many things (interpretation) where not written as there were convention stuff...

ecarroll · 06-10-2007, 02:51 PM

Nick,

Not if I'm conducting. Bach isn't Vivaldi. His music is far richer in counterpoint.

Do you have a photo of your Spada piccolo you can post? I've never seen one.

Best,
EC

rowuk · 06-10-2007, 04:51 PM

Nick,
the dynamics are easy, when the recorder is playing, keep the noise down. All the other instruments should be able to keep up!!!!

trumpetnick · 06-11-2007, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecarroll

Nick,

Not if I'm conducting. Bach isn't Vivaldi. His music is far richer in counterpoint.

Do you have a photo of your Spada piccolo you can post? I've never seen one.

Best,
EC

I have done this already

but it was not in your forum room...go get them Tiger

at http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/139/...o-33469-2.html (Spada Custom Piccolo) Thanks for the tip...I will think twice before inviting you to conduct

I was always better in playing p then forte, so it should be OK...look at the next reply

trumpetnick · 06-11-2007, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowuk

Nick,
the dynamics are easy, when the recorder is playing, keep the noise down. All the other instruments should be able to keep up!!!!

Don't worry, Robin! I am not going to do Bach in Mahler fashion

rowuk · 06-11-2007, 06:53 AM

Seriously Nick,
get the score and study it. The beauty of Bach is his inherent logic. Nothing is there by chance, everything fits.
When you look at the score, the dynamics become obvious. Just imagine a natural trumpet in high F - it doesn't get any tougher than that. There is no pianissimo in the stratosphere and Bach knew that. I believe many of the tutti passages are there to let the trumpet player "relax" by playing low notes.
The arpeggio C, e, g, c, g e, C a couple of bars before the high d in the 3rd movement, I play more like a military fanfare - it loosens the chops up and I am sure that Bach did not put them there for lack of any other ideas!

Vulgano Brother · 06-11-2007, 01:54 PM

Robin's "save the recorder!" plea is worth repeating. Don't forget that you aren't a soloists as such in a concerto grosso. I would suggest that rather than plan out dynamics in advance and risk getting them stuck in your head, let the dynamics of the small goup determine how loudly you play. Have fun!

ecarroll · 06-11-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowuk

The beauty of Bach is his inherent logic. Nothing is there by chance, everything fits. When you look at the score, the dynamics become obvious.

Bravo to the above. We don't need to force our will on the music (the Romantic period comes later). . . all we have to do is illuminate it.

Best,
EC

06-10-2007, 11:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
trumpetnick Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Brand: Spada Posts: 800	Brandenburg 2 Dynamics Dear Ed, Till recently I was not daring to adventure myself into the Brandenburg, as I heard of young trumpeters hurting their lips with such stuff...So finally I got the courage and as recently I got a new piccolo from Spada, so I started working on it. However, one question arrised: As there is many repeated patterns who may be interpreted in "echo" fashion (f-p) I am seriously thinking of doing it most of the cases, but never heard anyone doing it on any of the recordings I have heard so far... What is your opinion on?
	__________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 2b6, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

06-10-2007, 12:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,404	Re: Brandenburg 2 Dynamics Nick, Most of the passages that you are refering to are in tutti places, correct? If so the best solution is to follow the lines in the strings. You're accompaning them and shouldn't draw attention to your part. I assume you've watched Cassone's video that's floating around on youtube? It's a fabulous performance (and then some). Best, EC

06-10-2007, 12:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
trumpetnick Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vidin, Bulgaria Brand: Spada Posts: 800	Re: Brandenburg 2 Dynamics I have seen Cassone with Il Barochisti which is really fabulous....but what if all the orchestra does that? I know that it is not really written, but then many things (interpretation) where not written as there were convention stuff...
	__________________ Spada Bach B flat 72, leadpipe 2L/DWMM1.5C Spada Bach C 2b6, leadpipe 2LQ/DWMM1.5C 1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet Spada Custom Piccolo If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

06-10-2007, 02:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,404	Re: Brandenburg 2 Dynamics Nick, Not if I'm conducting. Bach isn't Vivaldi. His music is far richer in counterpoint. Do you have a photo of your Spada piccolo you can post? I've never seen one. Best, EC

06-10-2007, 04:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Brand: Nat, Piston, Rotary Posts: 3,923	Re: Brandenburg 2 Dynamics Nick, the dynamics are easy, when the recorder is playing, keep the noise down. All the other instruments should be able to keep up!!!!
	__________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

06-11-2007, 06:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Brand: Nat, Piston, Rotary Posts: 3,923	Re: Brandenburg 2 Dynamics Seriously Nick, get the score and study it. The beauty of Bach is his inherent logic. Nothing is there by chance, everything fits. When you look at the score, the dynamics become obvious. Just imagine a natural trumpet in high F - it doesn't get any tougher than that. There is no pianissimo in the stratosphere and Bach knew that. I believe many of the tutti passages are there to let the trumpet player "relax" by playing low notes. The arpeggio C, e, g, c, g e, C a couple of bars before the high d in the 3rd movement, I play more like a military fanfare - it loosens the chops up and I am sure that Bach did not put them there for lack of any other ideas!
	__________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

06-11-2007, 01:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Posts: 2,967	Re: Brandenburg 2 Dynamics Robin's "save the recorder!" plea is worth repeating. Don't forget that you aren't a soloists as such in a concerto grosso. I would suggest that rather than plan out dynamics in advance and risk getting them stuck in your head, let the dynamics of the small goup determine how loudly you play. Have fun!
	__________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

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