Robson

Hello Mr. Carroll

I know that you had a Thein corno da caccia and a now you have one by Matthias Beck (Dettingen/Erms). How would you compare the corno da caccia with the flugelhorn? Do they sound very different or it's just the wrap?

Thank you very much

ecarroll

Robson,

I used to have a Thein corno (a great instrument, gathering dust before I sold it to Mike Tunnell who's now playing it all over the place) but have never owned another one. Who told you that I have a Beck?

Best,
EC

kjt

Robson,

I have a Beck corno da caccia. Maybe you mistook an old post of mine as one from Ed. I have never played a Thein, so can't directly compare the Beck to the Thein.

Comparing to flugelhorn is difficult. It's just a different timbre. It does truly sound more like a high horn to me than like a flugelhorn (although horn players would probably say otherwise). If I were to play you a few excerpts back and forth on the corno da caccia and on the flugelhorn, I have no doubt that you would easily be able to distinguish which was which in a blind test, but I really don't know how to describe that difference with words. I would say that it has more to do with the sound of attacks than with the sound of sustained pitches, and probably the less directional character of tone in general.

-keith

ecarroll

If for no other reason, the corno faces the rear of the stage and the flugelhorn faces the audience.

Duh,
EC

Robson

Thank you guys and sorry for the mistake

I took the wrong information from here:

(Piccolo Sound)http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/146/piccolo-sound-29982-3.html

My fault...Sorry

The direction of the sound for sure is an important characteristic of the sound, but I believe it's not the only difference.

When I see the pictures I feel that the bell flare of the corno da caccia is a little different from the bell flare of the flugelhorn. I feel that the flugelhorn is more conical and has a larger throat, but a smaller diameter. On the other hand the bell of the corno da caccia is more like the horn's bell.
The bell of Nakariakov's flugelhorn has the characteristic I described above. The Courtois NR156 (not the regular R156) has a throat that is not really large, but the end of the bell is almost 200 mm. The sound of his flugel horn is completely different from the others.

Is the sound of the corno da caccia somewhat like Nakariakov's sound?

trumpetnick

Robby,

The sound of the Corno di caccia is just different. and even for one to another there may be small differences...What I would suggest is to get a recording of the 3rd mahler symphony where the solo is played on a corno di caccia. You will understand better than make us trying to put thin into words. One such recording is included in the Bernstein complete Mahler 9 symmhpnoies DVD set, if I remember well with Vienna Philharmonic

ecarroll

Robson,

I have a Courtois NR156 (with the 4th valve modified to lower pitches by a .25 tone) and it indeed has a huge bell. The flair, however, is more trombone-like in nature and not at all like that found on a horn. The wrap of the corno certainly adds something to the sonic equation, as does the short leadpipe.

re the short leadpipe, the math of the horn certainly makes a difference. Notice, as I'm sure you have, the difference between a rotary and piston trumpet.

Best,
EC

rowuk

The corno da caccia is not a corno or designed for da caccia, unless trumpet players are "hunting" for horn gigs.

I generally do not like this instrument for baroque things because very seldom does a trumpet player put a horn players hat on. The baroque parts were written to be played the way horns are played (you know with clams and train wrecks), most trumpet players just don't get it. The horn parts need to sound "high". The cdc makes it too easy and does not have that blending timbre of a real horn. Music is much more than being able to play the notes! Nope, not for me.

kjt

Many people feel the same way about piccolo trumpets versus natural trumpets for Baroque literature. And that's fine. There's no reason for us all to think the same.

Personally, I do like playing the corno da caccia, do like the sound it makes, and do believe that it can blend very well with larger horns given the right approach. In my case, one of my best friends is a very fine hornist and I have spent time working with him and listening to him (and other fine horn players) so that I [at least attempt to] play the corna da caccia in a horn-like manner rather than a trumpet-like manner.

So, not all of us that play these instruments are just trumpet players treating them like trumpets of a different shape. Then again, I often don't treat the piccolo trumpet like a trumpet either, but instead approach it for certain literature more with the concept of a flute sound or an oboe sound in my head, which comes from a lot of listening to flute, recorder and oboe playing.

-keith

Robson

Hello guys

Hijacking my own topic... I'm gonna ask another question:

It's hard to find people that have tried the brand new Courtois NR156. Is it much different from a regular flugel? How would you compare it with the ultra dark Kanstul 1525?

Thank you very much