ecarroll

TMers,

Contemporary music is being heard on our stages with unprecedented frequency (and thank God for that!). My question for you this morning is who amongst our living composers do you believe will become recognized as the Beethoven of his/her generation?

Thomas Ades comes instantly to mind for me, based upon his astonishing body of work and the international recognition that he is receiving. What about others? Perhaps Kaija Saariaho, Mark-Anthony Turnage, Einojuhani Rautavaara, or even John Adams or Maria Schneider?

I’m certain that Tristram, Stanford, Matthew, Sandy and Tom will want to weigh in here. What about the rest of you?

Curious, as always
EC

rowuk

I am not sure that what was possible during Beethoven or even Stravinskys' time is repeatable today. The problem was never the greatness or even availability of the music, it was rather the acceptance by the following generations that perpetuated the standing. Bach was, at his death, considered old fashioned. Felix Mendelssohn got him back on the map.
Much of todays greatest music is for educated listeners. Whether or not the society at large will develop enough to appreciate this greatness as they have with Beethoven? I have my doubts.
The modern composers that I feel move us into the next generation:
Krzysztof Penderecki, Hans-Jürgen von Bose, Helmut Lachenmann and unfortunately one that just missed your criteria: György Ligeti!
We all know that Beethoven wasn't any good anyway - where is the trumpet concerto?

ecarroll

Robin,

György Ligeti (and Olivier Messiaen, for that matter) would have certainly been on my list had they not done us the tremendous disservice of dying.

I agree with you that judgements of this sort are usually made with 20/20 hindsight, but certain composers have an undeniable buzz around them today. Our crystal ball gazing is to identify which ones the neu Mendelssohn might "re-discover" and why...(?)

Best,
EC
PS: for those of you unfamiliar with the Polish composer Krzysztof Penderecki, please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krzysztof_Penderecki

Manny Laureano

Predictably, we've been playing a lot of Kalevi Aho and I like his language as much as Ades. Both very creative in a time when you think all the good notes have been used up.

I don't know that Aho is the revolutionary Ades is and I'm not sure Ades is the revolutionary Beethoven was. But Beethoven didn't start rattling the cages immediately, either.

Having said that, how many of you younger players know that Beethoven is the guy who developed the symphonic scherzo from the minuet? That was pretty damned revolutionary at the time.

So, there's a benchmark from which we can discuss: what have the new composers added to the launguage of compositional structure?

ML





ML

KJaeger

I unfortunately have to agree...

What we term "classical music" no longer holds as prominent a place in popular culture as it was even 100 years ago. So it may never again be possible for today's "classical" composers to have that kind of impact on future generations.

More likely, IMO, that the Beethoven of the present day will come from a different musical "world" - certainly, I could see Ellington, Coltrane, or Miles Davis/Gil Evans being considered "giants" in 200 years time in a way that Beethoven is today. (Does that mean that Wynton is today's Felix Mendelssohn? ) That is, unless contemporary music regains a place at the forefont of popular culture in future generations.

Perhaps the Beethoven of today will still be... Beethoven?

If I had to predict, then I think the fact that Messaien 's work is gaining more and more appreciation (indeed, "buzz"), has had such influence on other composers and innovators and is of such recognizable quality makes him a candidate...

ecarroll

Kevin,

Perhaps. This is why I included Maria Schneider (and perhaps should have included Bob Brookmeyer as well).

Watching with great interest,
EC

KJaeger

I am not, unfortunately, sufficiently familiar with much the work of living composers that have been mentioned to really answer this question – I have to leave that to others, and believe me I’ll be taking notes! But, maybe I can contribute with what I think made Beethoven such a giant and an innovator, and someone could look at how today’s composers compare…

To me, Beethoven’s genius is that his music engages all aspects of our humanity – mind, heart and soul…

Mind: Beethoven’s music, from a theoretical point-of-view, is almost perfectly constructed. What made him so revolutionary is that he took the existing forms – like the menuet or like Haydn and Mozart’s sonata form - deconstructed them, and put them back together in something that was new and subversive yet still somehow completely recognizable. (The Eroica is a perfect example…) Everything just makes sense – every note, every chord, every change in tonality is logically and perfectly placed. There is not much extra “fluff” in his music that you could take away without screwing something up.

Heart: Even if one doesn’t know the first thing about music theory, Beethoven’s music engages you. There is an emotional resonance that transcends the raw notes on the page. You can feel the emotions are being communicated exquisitely even if you can’t understand how it’s being done.

Soul: Beethoven’s music, while firmly rooted in the cultural language of his time, somehow has as much impact 200 years later in an era of rock music, motion pictures and the internet. I would argue it even crosses into something universal that speaks to every human no matter where your from, what your skin color is or what spiritual beliefs you hold. Pretty amazing for crabby white European guy with a wig

Looking at composers of today, I am wondering who touches all those bases. I think perhaps it isn’t enough to be just a revolutionary or a subversive?

tpter1

I'd like to cut back to Manny's comment for a moment, and keep my eye on who's doing things in a completely different manner from the rest of the world musically at the time? Who is doing so, in the meantime gleaning great distaste from the critics but under wide acceptance from the musically "in the know"? That is what Beethoven's musical life was like. Was not Debussy's music the focus of sharp rebuke from his conservatory teachers? How many of us, at the first hearing of Schoenberg in music history class heard groans sounding like someone eating rotten pork from our neighbors?

I don't think those who are so critically acclaimed will be looked upon favorably in 2 or 3 hundred years' time. It's hard to think that anyone right now is contributing so profoundly to musical form, causing such musical upheaval, as Beethoven was. Open a symphony with a slow tempo? Insert a cadenza in a symphony? Feature solo timpani? Introduce a new instrument for the first time? Develop themes of great beauty out of musically stark material? Never state the same thing the same way twice? Pretty tall orders, but these are the developments that took place a Betthoven's hand. Oh yeah...let's not forget something...he lost his hearing!

So, to fill my order for outstanding composer of our time, the individual must be turning (or set to turn, or have the clear intent and means to set) the music world on its ear; continue to do so, following his/her own voice despite the demeaning remarks of critics; develop something completely new; continue on this path, even in the face of overwhelming hardship and seemingly impossible odds. Frank Zappa comes pretty close.

beartrumpet74

Maria Schneider has certainly added volumes to the sound of the modern big band. IMHO she has gone far beyond Gil Evans in many respects. When I say beyond I don't mean better....I mean different direction. I can see her being thought of the way Beethoven is thought of today years from now. I do fear however, that until we emerge from the cultural dark age we find ourself in with regard to pop music these days, that many of the worlds best composers regardless of genre will not receive the attention they so richly deserve.
Best
Matt

PH

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