ecarroll

Richard,

Good eye. I'm not convinced that the role of artists is to educate anyone, let alone management and audience. I think what Dave was trying to express was the disconnect between the suits in ever-growing offices and those actually creating the music on the stage. This certainly exists, even in world-class organizations such as the NYPhil.

The rank and file are rarely asked to provide artistic imput, aside from an occasional conductor evaluation form, often ignored. They feel like they are the ones onstage making the music, and yet the conditions surrounding their attempts often compromise the end product -- ultimately cheating the listener (something that every professional musican is acutely concerned by).

I know and respect these guys as I've been there and done that myself. It speaks volumes to me that we haven't heard publicly expressed complaints from Dave or his colleagues (notice those who have commented on his blog) before. Mr. Kaplan must have really been an embarassment and the performance deeply troubling to the band for this to surface as it did.

Best,
EC

bagmangood

In general, we probably are being too harsh, but
keep in mind, he's conducting with top orchestras and he's an amateur conductor at best. There is a big difference between musically analyzing a piece and bringing new material out for people to think about, and actually bringing that out as a performer. There is a reason why not everyone is a professional musician - we don't have what it takes. Its the way it works. I'm not a professional trumpet player (still a student), or much of a composer or anything like that, and I doubt I could pull it off, but I know what my limits are, and i'm not going to take my recent analysis of Schubert's Unfinished Symphony and try to conduct an orchestra based on it.

__________________
Bb: Courtois 305 "Elite"
C: Bach C180-239 (Akwright conversion),
Cornet: Conn Wonder (1900)
Picc: Selmer Paris, ~1971

TrentAustin

I think we take ourselves too seriously. I find it laughable that someone compared Kaplan to flying a jet. Anyone die from his conducting? Maybe they wanted to die but if we always throw our noses at people who really support the arts it will make more and more of them want to spend their money elsewhere. Those hefty orchestral salaries don't just grow on trees.

I can't tell you how many "Kaplan" events I've had on stage... one that comes to mind is a series of gigs with Tony Bennett when he also brought his daughter to "sing" along. pathetic. I'm still not going to turn down the 95% of the gig that is great because of her total lack of musical talent.

Maybe the people that have huge gripes with Kaplan should have subbed out and not played the gig. Or just do it and "suffer"... playing trombone in the NYP can't be all that bad.

__________________
http://trentaustinmusic.com
Consultant, S.E. Shires Trumpets
Shires B59BLW "TA" model Bb trumpet
Adams Gold Brass Flugelhorn
Wedge Mouthpieces
PM me for an appointment to try a Shires!

scottcgr

I think there's a good chance that most people in the NYPO got to where they are by taking themselves and their work what many would call too seriously.

Of course it would be great for anyone who aspires to be a musician to have a job in the NYPO, and surely nothing to complain about. But if you spent your life working your ass off day in and day out to be able to do something and do it as well as possible, wouldn't it make sense to expect a similar degree of knowledge, effort and dedication from your colleagues, let alone those who lead you in performance? Wouldn't it frustrate you to see someone who is incompetent and unqualified collect public praise and adoration for a passion that you yourself not only also have, but have actually put in the time, thought, and work to realize?

HoosierDaddy

Amen Scott

Richard Oliver

Motives matter. Not begging the question quality of music made.

All I can think of is the golden rule: he who has the gold, makes the rules.

Dismal if that's all there is.

Do you know the 1958 mid-twentieth literary criticism book by Abrams, "The Mirror and the Lamp"? Part of his fulcrum is the public's need of education. Of course, what sort and who does the educating is another matter.

But that work sprung to mind reading the blog. My experience and ideals on these things don't fit into a neat package: got a great deal of respect for "common sense" a la G. K. Chesterton -- so the necessity of a "critical/esthetic class" I doubt (or at least how I've seen it play out) -- but to depended on the public to know what's up on these matters, well that doesn't wash either.

A rock and a hard place.

Who inspires me most in these matters are St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle. Yeah. I keep it to myself mostly.

siarr

Trent,

I see your point - the arts are largely supported by the wealthy, so we should cut them some slack if they want to play conductor for a while. I wouldn't have a problem if they just paid for a pick-up session with great musicians and had a ball playing Toscanini, but should they be encouraged to do it during actual subscription concerts with major orchestras around the world? Granted, any major band is going to be able to get the piece played reasonably well, even with a lame conductor. But is that what a concert performance is about - a kind of symphonic karaoke for anyone having the wherewithal to wave a baton? Mr. Kaplan's enthusiasm and dedication to this work are perhaps commendable, but in my opinion, this doesn't justify allowing him or any non-professional take the reins in front of a paying audience and an orchestra of dedicated pros. Perhaps the airplane analogy was a bit extreme, but suppose a wealthy NFL supporter or team owner decided he could take over the quarterback's job on Sunday afternoon - the team might actually win the game, but would it be right? Would the on-field results reflect the true talents and abilities of the players? Would the fans be well-served? I don't think so.

No one with any sense wants to bite the hand that feeds them. We all have played gigs where there were less than professional circumstances, and we swallowed our pride and played the gig. Most of us have played under lots of under-qualified time-beaters, but most of us are not at the NY Phil level. In my opinion, it's not unreasonable for the managements of major orchestras to maintain a policy of not allowing amateur conductors, regardless of their wealth or zeal, to conduct the orchestra in a regular concert. If they want to set up a special benefit concert, why not? Let them all have a shot in one evening, have fun and make more money for the band. But when game time comes around, let a real quarterback call the plays.

Best,
Chas

ecarroll

Chas,

The performance in question was a pension fund concert, not a regular subscription series. There's a strong argument to be made for allowing this sort of thing when it's a benefit for those onstage (and recently off). Additionally, instances such as the Charlotte Bergen story told above were quite acceptable at the time. The American Symphony was, and still is, a freelance band and paycheck no matter who was leading it (imagine Leonard Bernstein & Charlotte Bergen during the same season -- it happened).

The issue, as I see it, is one of context and appropriateness. Danny Kaye used to do pension fund gigs with the NYPhil and the musicians welcomed him and his program of comedy/music with open arms. Mahler 2, with large choir, soloists, off-stage brass & percussion, is quite another thing.

Again, this whole brouhaha smells to me of a decision taken by the suits with no feedback from the musicians themselves. You would be surprised by the amount of animosity that exists between musicians and management (a huge number of people and growing) within certain organizations. It's hard enough to suppress one's necessary musical ego if you're a rank-and-file string or section wind player. It becomes even harder when membership feels that those calling the shots are less qualified than they are regarding decisions that ultimately reflect on the brand name.

In the larger scheme of things we all have far more important things to worry about but to me this event, and the frenzy that it has caused, is the tip of a very interesting iceberg.

Snowbound in NH,
EC

westview1900

Not exactly a B747, but John Travolta is type rated to pilot a B707 as a second in command.
Celebrity Pilots, Famous Pilots, Darren Smith, Flight Instructor, CFI Homepage

__________________
Thank goodness for music.

ecarroll

West,

Thank goodness for music indeed.

Best,
EC