ecarroll

TMers,

An interesting piece by Dave Finlayson, trombonist in the NY Phil, about Gilbert Kaplan is floating around the internet today. Mr. Kaplan, as perhaps you know, is a wealthy and apparently passionate fan of Gustav Mahler who bought Mahler's manuscript for the Second Symphony. He has since expanded his hobbyist's interest in the work to recordings and performances with top orchestras around the world.

The musical stakes in such performances are high as the conflict of marketing versus expertise comes into question. Please take a moment to read the link and let's discuss...

Best,
EC

http://davidfinlayson.typepad.com/fi...rt-kaplan.html

scottcgr

I got hold of his recording of it with the LSO a couple months ago after reading about him and becoming interested in what it would sound like. I listened to it, and it sounded like the LSO playing Mahler 2. I haven't listened to it again. Not that there seemed to be anything terribly wrong with it, but I never found a reason to listen to it again when I could just as easily listen to a performance by a real genius and master musician-Chailly, Boulez, Bernstein, Rattle, Haitink are some names that spring to mind-a person who I know not only understands the music on an incredibly high level but knows how to wield a world-class orchestra.

Also the fact that he has been performing this work for 26 years now and hasn't expanded his repertoire (I heard he recently started doing just the Adagietto from 5) goes to show how seriously he should be taken. If he has spent these many years perfecting or at least working on his technique and musical understanding he would probably get that there's more than one good piece out there. I agree that it is insulting to the professional musicians, even to the students of professional music and the time and thought they put into their work that he poses as one.

The fact that he is still (at least by this musician's account) severely incompetent and clueless after this many years shows he does not care to put any work or effort or thought into the music and simply wants to be the man standing on the podium waving his arms with a passionate look on his face as the glorious music moves half of the audience to tears.

One more thing to consider: Kaplan has been professionally, with top international orchestras, conducting for 26 years.

Gustavo Dudamel has been alive for 27.

Who would you rather have on your podium?

ecarroll

Simon Rattle, since you asked

Best,
EC (smart guy)

bagmangood

To be able to understand something, and to be able to bring it out of an orchestra are two very different things.
The age old axiom,
those who can't, teach
(music gives opportunities to expand this, but i'll ignore that )

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wiseone2

Anyone remember Charlotte Bergen? She conducted the American Symphony. Maybe she and Stokie had a thing going on? She was terrible and nasty to the musicians.

This is a 1978 Time Magazine article about her-

Conductor Bergen Who?

It is one of the strangest musical customs in New York City. Three or four times a year, Charlotte Bergen, a wealthy recluse from Bernardsville, N.J., rents Carnegie Hall and conducts a free concert. She hires the American Symphony Orchestra and various soloists, gets out her 2-ft.-long baton and mounts the podium as maestro for the day—paying some $40,000 for the Mittyesque experience. She has no formal training in conducting. Also she is a frail woman of 81 encumbered with a heavy back brace.

But when Bergen stepped slowly out onstage and gave the downbeat for her latest concert, she was greeted with the respect due a serious musician both by members of the symphony and old fans in the 2,800-member, capacity audience.

Bergen proved to be no Solti on the podium—she gave few entrance or dynam ic cues—but she kept the symphony marching along smartly to her emphatic beat through the Brahms and Schumann program. It was good, solid music, capped with a rousing run through a Brahms' Hungarian Dance that had the audience clapping along in approval. Said one musician: "She does amazingly well at get ting the continuity and the overall interpretation right."

If Bergen has realized the great dream of amateur conductors everywhere, she owes it to her money as well as to her art. Her mother was a Gardiner (the clan that has owned a private island off Long Island since 1639). She grew up in a 23-room mansion on her family's estate —where she still lives—and was raised on cello lessons, parlor musical soirees and concerts at Carnegie Hall.

At tunes, watching Toscanini conduct, she recalls wondering, "How would it feel to wave that little stick around?"

But the will to conduct came only a decade ago, after her Roman Catholic parish church asked her help in improving its choir. "Gradually," she says, "I became aware that one could put instruments together with the choir and produce wider horizons of sound." She fell in love with the ability to create that rich sound, so much more dramatic than her single cello line. The next step was to try her hand with a symphony. That decided, she never thought twice about Carnegie Hall.

Says she: "It has the acoustics, the tradition, my childhood memories—everything right there."

After her concerts, Bergen greets well-wishers backstage; about 5,000 fans are on her mailing list for concert information; 4,300 requested tickets for this concert. "God bless you," some tell her. "See you next time," she replies. Then she heads back to New Jersey with her nurse, full-time companion and chauffeur.

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Brasil66

Wow...sounds like Dave tried to just shake his head and just couldn't do it any longer. It's a shame that many of us have been in situations like this-where we have to perform great masterpieces under unpleasant circumstances...where we are to ignore mediocrity while medioctiry gets celebrated. Fortunately, I think the better musicians know how to cope and get along with this sort. JC

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ecarroll

Wilmer,

Ray Mase and I were the brunt of one of le Bergen's rants on the Carnegie Hall stage with the American Symphony years ago. Highlights included "I know what I'm talking about. . . I used to blow a bugle". Ray turned to me and deadpanned "wow, we're about to get fired by Charlotte Bergen" and we both fell into uncontrolled giggling.

Bergen Co. NJ is named after her family, by the way. She paid for the orchestra and bought out the hall herself. Must be nice.

Thanks for the memory,
EC

bagmangood

Definition of a post turtle:
You know she didn’t get up there by herself, she doesn’t belong up there, she doesn’t know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with.

Not originally used for either of these people, but I think it works...

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mahaberio

I was watching an interview with Simon Rattle on Charlie Rose and Gilbert Kaplan's name came up. They have a connection in that Mahler's 2nd Symphony was the piece that inspired both men to conduct. Charlie asked Simon what he thought of Kaplan's conducting of the piece and Simon said something the to effect of "you can tell he's not a professional, but you can tell he knows the piece". (I'd quote directly but the youtube video is taking too long to load. You can see it here:

)

My personal view is that, if you're going to have a repertoire of one piece you had better bring something very special to it, and I just don't think Kaplan does. On the other hand, he seems to be doing precisely what he set out to do; though why so many top orchestras have been indulging him in it for so many years is beyond me.

I think one of the central issues this topic brings up is an almost ubiquitous misunderstanding of the role and significance of a conductor. I find it appalling that Kaplan can receive such high praise from music critics while some of the great genius conductors of our time haven't been immune to the farcical scrutiny of these people with decidedly more elementary understandings of music than most of those up on the podium.

siarr

It's a sad fact that money often trumps talent/experience in our world. I've performed with a local pops orchestra that was entirely "bought and paid for" by a fellow who had visions of glory and tons of money. His experience was as a mid-level club-date pianist. Rehearsals were hellish, not only due to his utter ignorance of conducting technique and related skills, but also to his arrogant and unprofessional demeanor. It takes what little fun there is out of the gig, and the concerts are always a compromise, because the musicians are always striving to keep things together. I've always been skeptical of Gilbert Kaplan, and Mr. Finlayson's piece just validates that for me. It reminds me of these billionaires who buy themselves a trip to the International Space Station, though this is a decidedly passive example. A better one would be a wealthy guy who loves airplanes and buys himself a 747 and trys to fly it himself. Would you want to be onboard?